9.04.2005

them

Redsock writes:
While waiting at the checkout at Loblaws this morning, I run over to grab a copy of the Toronto Star. Not knowing exactly what day it is, I grab a copy of Saturday's paper and hand it to the woman behind the register.

Her (holding paper out and reading the huge headline): "What Took You?" What does that mean? It sounds like something is missing.

Me: Probably "What took you so long?" ... Considering all the other horror stories from down there. [Thinking of Bush's refusal of aid from Canada.]

Her: Right! Of course. That's it. ... You'd think so much more could be done, but maybe we don't know all of the logistics.

Me: Well, it's not like they didn't know the storm was coming.

Her (shaking head): We think of them as such a powerful country, but ...

Me (surprised, then consciously avoiding pronouns): It wasn't a big concern. It's just a lot of misplaced priorities.

Walking out, I'm amazed at her use of that one word. Them. Not us. Not we. Them.

The US is now one of those other countries that exist outside our borders. Powerful and important, of course, but definitely Not Us.
Thanks for the guest post, especially because I can't concentrate on anything right now.

24 comments:

mkk said...

Hi, Redsock! Glad to see you wrote a special guest post...as mind-boggling as that information is. Another huge scandal that will undoubtedly be swept under the rug by W & Friends.

Wrye said...

There was also an excellent piece in Saturday's Globe and Mail on the mess in the convention centre, too. Grab it if you haven't already.

James Redekop said...

I'm really, really hoping that the fact that his has actually managed to get Fox News reports to criticize Bush means that this time, it'll stick. If you have not seen it, you should watch the clip of Geraldo describing just how bad things are at the convention centre.

Rognar said...

It may be a day late and a dollar short, but at least the US government has swallowed its pride and allowed us to start sending help. We already have nearly a hundred volunteers in the area and many more, including 3 navy and one Coast Guard ships, on the way.

barefoot hiker said...

Walking out, I'm amazed at her use of that one word. Them. Not us. Not we. Them. The US is now one of those other countries that exist outside our borders. Powerful and important, of course, but definitely Not Us.

It's ironic. Just yesterday I was sitting in a restaurant down on Front Street with Paul, and we were discussing your move to Canada. Paul was saying that, in his visits to wmtc, he'd noticed that the interests were still largely focused on the US in general and NY in particular... and while that was not to be unexpected, there was apt to be a pause and then a polite moving-along among a Canadian audience, except on the broadest topics (like this one). He said he expected that over the first six months or so, there'd come a moment of... not exactly awakening, that's not how he put it... not awareness... I'm not quite conveying his meaning... but anyway, I think we're seeing it here. An epiphany.

I've noticed that Americans typically have an attitude about Canada that treats us as 'USA pending'... sort of a holdover, a vast, unincorporated Minnesota. Some people ascribe that to arrogance but I've always felt that it simply reflects a basic kindness about Americans: Canadians are pretty much like us; they just haven't gotten around to sending people to Congress yet; that kind of thing. And while it is slightly patronizing, there's no denying that it gives one a faintly warm feeling. It's like knowing a family among whom it's simply unquestioned that if you should happen to show up around dinner time, everyone else will bunch up a little and make room.

But for most Canadians, there is no joining that table for good. Choices were made in the 1770s that we've had to live with ever since, and our whole existence has been tied up in treading American water and keeping our nose above it. You can say it might be easier to drown, become one with the water. It'll only hurt for a moment. But it's the idea of the loss of self, being, identity, that drives us. People say there's no Canadian identity; I'd dispute that, but it's beside the point: even if we don't know who we are, we know who we're not.

And now you're among us. To some extent, you will become us... but again, never entirely, and that's a good thing too. Neither should you forget your identity, even as it changes to include something else. There might even come a day when you catch yourself thinking of Washington as "them", and I can only imagine how startling that will be for you. The first shoe just dropped for you. That'll be the second, I think.

laura k said...

Paul was saying that, in his visits to wmtc, he'd noticed that the interests were still largely focused on the US in general and NY in particular...

Yes, I've thought about this a lot, too - I've posted about it here and there. When will I feel that Canada is home, rather than I've left my home and am living in a foreign country. When will I stop feeling like a New Yorker. (Will I ever stop feeling like a New Yorker?) When will I experience a shift in identity?

These are questions to which answers cannot be predicted. I just have to live and see what transpires.

Allan's observations, and yours, about us and them are also interesting because both Allan and I have made a studious effort to not say "we" when we mean "the US". It comes more naturally to Allan, because of his upbringing. (Apparently, fundamentalist cults are good for something!) But if we don't say "we" for the US, when will we say "we" for Canada?

There's no way to know.

As for this --

there was apt to be a pause and then a polite moving-along among a Canadian audience, except on the broadest topics (like this one)

-- that's each reader's choice. I can only tell the story as it happens.

allan said...

The first shoe just dropped for you. That'll be the second, I think.

I really enjoyed your post, LP (people sit around discussing our move over lunch?!). However, I think I'm actually barefoot at this point.

Because of my religious upbringing, I still think of the government as them, as separate from me. Since I was once supposed to regard myself as "no part of this world," I rarely would use the term "we" when discussing something the US was doing. I have always thought of Washington -- either party, even the guy I voted for (though that happened only once) -- as "them."

What made Sunday's exchange weird for me, I think, was hearing the other person do it too. It just hit home that I was somewhere else.

Filing out the forms, crossing the border -- those things were obvious. This was one of those little moments that we've discussed here -- little moments that will occur every so often over the next year (?) to let us know we really did leave the United States.

barefoot hiker said...

But if we don't say "we" for the US, when will we say "we" for Canada?

Yes, you have to be in a very interesting headspace just at the moment. Having chosen voluntarily to leave the US, there's a slight disavowal of the country... probably enough to alienate you from the "we". At least, you probably can't say it anymore without reflection. On the other hand, you've just arrived in Canada, and are probably a little wary of seeming presumptuous by immediately adopting the Canadian "we". It must be a little like being your own country. You'll probably move back and forth between "we's" depending on the context, and never be completely one or the other. Your point of view will be unique. But you've been through a lot, and you've earned it. :)

barefoot hiker said...

What made Sunday's exchange weird for me, I think, was hearing the other person do it too. It just hit home that I was somewhere else.

That's a whole new set of ideas for me. I see where you're coming from, though, I think. Even if you weren't "we" in the States, everyone else was. Wow, there's so much to be learned tuning in here. :)

I think some little things will probably crop up from time to time. Like hearing everyone hear getting ready for Thanksgiving at Columbus Day, and being mute about the holiday in November (when there's no holiday at all, and God knows we could use one).

laura k said...

Like hearing everyone hear getting ready for Thanksgiving at Columbus Day, and being mute about the holiday in November (when there's no holiday at all, and God knows we could use one).

And to complicate things further, my family will be inviting us for Thanksgiving at the usual US time...!

laura k said...

It must be a little like being your own country.

I like it. KaminkerWood-Land.

Anonymous said...

When will I feel that Canada is home, rather than I've left my home and am living in a foreign country. When will I stop feeling like a New Yorker. (Will I ever stop feeling like a New Yorker?) When will I experience a shift in identity?

Too easy! Labor Day Weekend 2010!

Your a Canadian when a Canadian has perceived you as a Canadian, eh. It takes at least 5 years.

Walking out, I'm amazed at her use of that one word. Them. Not us. Not we. Them.

This is only the first of many amazments to come.

Welcome to Canada you guys!!

May your transition be smooth.

LP: Hi bud, we really liked what you wrote:

"there'd come a moment of... not exactly awakening, that's not how he put it... not awareness... I'm not quite conveying his meaning..."

That's one way to put it...LOL!

laura k said...

Hi DaveS and MrsDaveS! Nice to see you here - and thank you for the welcome!

I have to wait til 2010...?? Aw geez!! :)

Anonymous said...

There might even come a day when you catch yourself thinking of Washington as "them", and I can only imagine how startling that will be for you. The first shoe just dropped for you. That'll be the second, I think.

As an American who has experienced this, I can say it was surprising and extremely liberating...:)

Anonymous said...

I have to wait til 2010...??

It goes alot faster than you think.

In the mean time, may I suggest that you start thinking about getting ready for winter? We have seen the geese on the move, heading south so it won't be long! You look close to the lake, are you also in the flight path of the geese? If so, you guys will enjoy it.

I know this is off topic, but I saw a blog where you were discussing plastic vs. no plastic on your windows. Definately go with the plastic. There is nothing like the Northern breeze drafting through your house!

laura k said...

I see the geese every morning. I stare at them in wonder.

Plastic sounds ok, but we'll wait til it gets seriously cold. (Yes folks, we know what seriously cold is.) For now I want the breeze!

And btw, nothing is off-topic here. :)

Anonymous said...

Plastic sounds ok, but we'll wait til it gets seriously cold. For now I want the breeze!

I said the same thing our first year here in QC (we to are on a lake )
I hate the plastic.
We heat our Mc-mansion with the Devil's excrement ... the first year we paid $4000.00 without the plastic.

The next year we changed most of the windows, & plastic the rest on the Canadian Thanksgiving. That year's bill was $1500.00 in Devil's excrement and $500 in wood.

Give me that plastic baby, I love that stuff!

laura k said...

I said the same thing our first year here in QC (we to are on a lake )
I hate the plastic.


I meant I'll wait til winter, be that in two weeks or two months. We certainly don't need the plastic before the heat is on!

barefoot hiker said...

Your a Canadian when a Canadian has perceived you as a Canadian, eh. It takes at least 5 years.

I think Redsock's made the grade already... the woman at the checkout certainly took him for one of us. Not one of... them. :)

Maybe you just didn't project enough power, Redsock. :)

Anonymous said...

I meant I'll wait til winter

The timing is different for each part of Canada, we are farther North than T.O., so we put ours in Oct. It's too cold by Nov.

laura k said...

Maybe you just didn't project enough power, Redsock. :)

Much to his credit, I might add.

We've had some interesting reaction from shop owners, bank employees, etc. I'll post on that one day soon.

Anonymous said...

We've had some interesting reaction from shop owners, bank employees, etc.

I'll bet most of them are curious as to why you left the 'great' country of the USA.

Goes to show what a good job the American media does of hiding the reality of living there.

allan said...

I see that Laura and I both posted at exactly 8:53 this morning!

Re winter -- now we'll finally have a use for that duct tape and plastic sheeting W told us to buy.

Anonymous said...

yup, not just for chemical warfare after all...

:D

Peter