Most pedestrians in the GTA wait at a corner for the light to change, and don't cross, even if there are no cars in sight. I find this very odd.
I continue to cross intersections when no cars are coming, with or against the traffic light, as I always have done. Usually a crowd is standing at the corner while I do so.
34 comments:
You rebel!
As a pedestrian I tend to treat a crossing at a light as I would a 4 way stop in a car. Stop, check for oncoming traffic in all directions, proceed.
However, a big problem that I have as a driver are the pedestrians that make the crossing expecting the walking man to appear at any second. In reality he will not appear because there is an advance left turn for the cars. Now the cars can't make it through on their left arrow because they must wait for pedestrians that have not followed the rules. I'm sure you would never do that.
Please be careful. We don't want to suddenly see a drop off in your blog and find out that there was a pedestrian vs. car mishap!
I've noticed that too. Occasionally I've seen people downtown cross against the light, but usually the streets there are seven feet wide and it really does feel like more a matter of discretion.
I think what it comes down to is the notion that, you know, what a minute... the light will change. Why force the issue? If anything happens, you're in the wrong. I think Canadians don't cross against the light as pedestrians for exactly the same reason they don't proceed through an intersection in a car against the light. If there's nothing to stop them... why not? Because we realize if we ignore the rules, the system breaks down. That's to no one's benefit. Canadians don't cross against the light; Canadians punch their tickets on the honour-system GO lines. Canadians prefer to wait for the world to say "Military force is sanctioned." To some people, this is cowardice. To others, it is prudent respect for the rule of law. We're not absolute about it... a lot of Canadians smoke pot, for example. But when it comes to something where someone else could be affected, I think we find adherence to the rules to be the default setting. "And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat?", to coin a phrase.
Now the cars can't make it through on their left arrow because they must wait for pedestrians that have not followed the rules. I'm sure you would never do that.
I do it all the time. But I hurry. :)
Please be careful.
Thanks for your concern. I've been crossing streets this way - in NYC, no less - all my life. I'll probably be ok! :)
I think what it comes down to is the notion that, you know, what a minute... the light will change. Why force the issue? If anything happens, you're in the wrong.
If I can't see any cars coming in any direction, I'm not going to stand there and wait for a little electronic signal to sanction my crossing. I don't think of it as forcing an issue - I think of it as using my own common sense as I go about my day. If the system breaks down from that, well, it's a pretty flimsy system!
"And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat?",
One of my favourites - I've quoted it in this blog.
But it's hard for me to see that applied to walking across a street when no cars are coming.
By the way, I don't mean to be rude or callous here. I guess this part of me will always be a New Yorker. Or at least still is one now.
But it's hard for me to see that applied to walking across a street when no cars are coming.
I don't think anyone sane ever deliberately steps out in front of a car... it's no act of prudence not to proceed when you see 'em. It's precisely when you don't that you ought to be cautious. A lot of people logic themselves to Darwin Awards.
Hey... you asked. Now you know. :)
I definitely asked! More precisely, I observed, and then everyone chimes in. :)
A lot of people logic themselves to Darwin Awards.
What means this?
I think it's just that on the continuum from order to chaos, New York is closer to, say, Rome than Toronto. I can't follow orders that closely. It just goes against my nature.
I chuckle because this is actually a very famous "characteristic" of Canadians that you've observed. I guess it's not just a stereotype. The version I heard is that of all nationalities surveyed, Canadians and Singaporeans are the only ones who invariably wait at a red light, at least initially.
Numerous jokes exist on the subject, of course--Canadians freezing to death at a flashing four way stop and the like.
Well, it depends. (Is that the most Canadian answer of all?) I don't drive, so "pedestrian" is my default position.
If there are no cars in sight, I don't wait for the green. I see an awful lot of people crossing against the light -- where do the rest of you encounter all these saints? :)
If there's a child waiting at the corner, I wait too. It sets a good example for the yewts and gives 'em something to rebel against when they're older.
If I'm very tired or feeling distracted, I wait for the green. Better safe than sorry if I know my senses aren't sharp. I just don't want to deal with extra decisions at that point.
I always virtuously wait for the advanced left turners to have their turn. I expect them to follow the rules and not run me over, and I do my share by waiting until it's my turn. Of course, I almost got killed last week as I crossed legally. It's a big crap shoot.
I wait when I have the kids with me always. When alone, I've been known to cheat. In downtown San Francisco, never. Those people are nuts.
Hmm, I think waiting at the corner for a light to turn green might be an Ontario thing. Montreal is a free for all. Any pedestrian, cyclist or driver hitting the street takes their life in their own hands. It's a jungle out there.
I did live in Halifax for a while and the minute a pedestrian looks like they might be approaching the curb, traffic grinds to a halt.
Moving back to Montreal was a little shocking, I had to remember all of my survival skills.
P.S. on a completely unrelated note - I just finished graduate school today.
Congratulations, Wangmo!
OK, here's my deal.
I used to be a nanny. We would hold hands and run across (against the lights) together! It was fun. I never did this when cars were coming - I'm not insane. But shit, the kid's a New Yorker, too.
I've been really watching this downtown. There have been one, maybe two other people crossing with me. Mostly everyone stands there and waits, even though no cars are coming. Saints? Or sheeple?
Allan wants me to note that in our old NYC neighbourhood (Washington Heights), when the light turned red, you had to wait several seconds for the three or four cars that ran the red light. And on our street - which was one-way - you had to look both ways before crossing the street, because car service drivers would be hurtling down the street... IN REVERSE!!
I kid you not. Backwards. Fast.
So once again I find I am more in tune with Montreal than Toronto. Hmm.
One thing I've noticed as a Canadian driver:
Cars will not slow down to allow you to change lanes in front of them. It actually seems worse than in Manhattan.
... selfish Ontario fuckers.
In downtown San Francisco, never. Those people are nuts.
Totally nuts! I don;t know how many pedestrains are killed each year, but it's a lot. Still, I often cross against the light. I even have a favorite inrersection for jaywalking.
Hi, I think it's important to consider the actions of both driving and walking in NYC are unique from pretty much anywhere else, and a response to necessity. Manhattan, laid in its orderly grid, is dominated by swarms of pedestrians (including tourists), taxis and trucks. The result of such different entities sharing the same circuits is far less chaos than it is a massive, organic flow of bodies and metal that are conditioned to understand the other. There's an aspect of predictability there, which contradicts chaos.
Anyone visiting NYC for the first time surely will be surprised at the language (both physical and verbal) between drivers and pedestrians! It's intimate, there's heightened mutual awareness and the interaction is like a dance. It's completely understandable that you'd miss it...
The opposite relationship may be true not only in Toronto but in many cities - like how about LA? I think the understanding between these drivers and pedestrians is that the other is unpredictable and not worth messing with. Also, these cities have a split mix of streets and highways which doesn't allow much time to develop intimacy between flesh and steel.
Am I making any sense?
Calling Toronto pedestrians sheeple is going too far! :) Crossing streets with signals offers a chance for a few moments of peace in a hectic day, and people know if they need to get somewhere fast they can and will cross against a light if it's safe.
Toronto highways are famous for their carnage, though, so less people might risk it.
Perhaps waiting demonstrates a passive instinct rather than aggressive, and though it may not deliver immediate results it is consistent. Canadians dig consistency, which I don't think is relative to or demonstrates submission. Creating consistency does take thought and action, but it's subtle and has it's own intricacies.
In downtown San Francisco, never. Those people are nuts.
Totally nuts! I don;t know how many pedestrains are killed each year, but it's a lot. Still, I often cross against the light. I even have a favorite inrersection for jaywalking.
Crabbi, I always knew you were a woman after my own heart.
Marnie, Crabbi and I will just have to cross against the lights together. So there. :)
Tijo, hmmm, I'll have to mull over this fine analysis. :)
Although New York is unique (and you'll never hear me say otherwise!), I think people jaywalk in all US cities, at least in the pedestrian-oriented downtown cores - Boston, Philly, DC, etc.
like how about LA? I think the understanding between these drivers and pedestrians is that the other is unpredictable and not worth messing with.
There are pedestrians in L.A.?
Wangmo makes a great point about the Atlantic provinces... to the extent that I would hasten to caution you about driving there.
I remember when I was visiting St. FX and I walking was on the south side of a major street... on the north side was the main university campus. I was walking down the street (not near an intersection or a crosswalk) and turned to look at the campus and take a photograph. *Screech* all traffic halted.
Four lanes of traffic. On a major thoroughfare.
I had no intent to cross at the time, but I felt obliged to.
So, being a pedestrian in the Atlantic provinces you would be safe, but if you're expecting traffic to flow normally when there's a person waiting to jaywalk, you'll be rear-ending someone within 20 minutes of entering a town.
Mostly everyone stands there and waits, even though no cars are coming. Saints? Or sheeple?
Canadians.
And on our street - which was one-way - you had to look both ways before crossing the street, because car service drivers would be hurtling down the street... IN REVERSE!!
I do this too. I lived a year in Boston (while my father was on sabatical to study Cooper at Harvard).
Once, when visiting Boston later (while I was in college, but my family was there for a second sabatical), I was nearly hit head-on by a cab while riding a bike the right way on a one-way street.
When I was on that Hart House Orchestra exchange I mentioned earlier, I had to give the other orchestra members lessons on Boston pedestrianism. That year, local shops were selling "I Survived Boston Traffic" t-shirts (with tread marks printed across the chest).
Once, when visiting Boston later (while I was in college, but my family was there for a second sabatical), I was nearly hit head-on by a cab while riding a bike the right way on a one-way street.
Wow, they do this in Boston, too? Who knew!
*Screech* all traffic halted.
Four lanes of traffic. On a major thoroughfare.
I had no intent to cross at the time, but I felt obliged to.
Pretty amazing.
In London (England, not Ontario) there are those striped cross-walks, what do they call them, zebra lanes...? (Can't remember.) If pedestrians are in them, cars have to stop to let them cross. If they had those in New York, they'd be strewn with dead bodies.
When the light says walk, I walk
When the light says don't walk, I run
When the light says walk, I walk
When the light says don't walk, I run
:-)
In London (England, not Ontario) there are those striped cross-walks, what do they call them, zebra lanes...? (Can't remember.) If pedestrians are in them, cars have to stop to let them cross.
In fact, that is the law in London Ontario too, and I suspect most other parts of Canada. At least some of our crosswalks are striped, to boot (don't know if the style of striping is different, though...anyone?). If a pedestrian is in a non-stoplight controlled crosswalk, legally you're expected to stop. What is the point of having a crosswalk if cars won't stop?
The crosswalk does not project a forcefield, however, and pedestrians are advised not to step out suddenly onto one in a rainstorm while wearing black if cars are coming.
What is the point of having a crosswalk if cars won't stop?
Indeed. In Washington Heights I often wondered what the point of traffic lights were.
IIRC, these striped crosswalks also have lights on either end, or at least reflectors. It was hard for us to get used to - just stepping out and expecting cars to stop.
The crosswalk does not project a forcefield, however, and pedestrians are advised not to step out suddenly onto one in a rainstorm while wearing black if cars are coming.
Wise advice for saints, sinners and sheeple alike.
It's not a totally universal Canadian quality though.....
In Montreal, nobody waits for a red light (nor is limited to crossing in a cross walk either). Here in Ottawa, the etiquette is if there's no cars at all, you cross against the light, but you cross at the crosswalk.
Off topic: I added a short french lesson in your post about your latest email "friend".
Whoops, noticed Montreal was already mentioned...
Off topic: I added a short french lesson in your post about your latest email "friend".
Oh yes, I see all. :) Thank you! I will practice those very useful words.
In Montreal, dey got dis 'distinct society', y'see? When th'light turns green, that means "BOOT 'ER!" An' when th'light turns red, that means "STOP! There might be someone comin' in a perpendicular direction!" That's distinct, b'y.
-- Buddy Wasisname and the Other Fellers
I chuckle because this is actually a very famous "characteristic" of Canadians that you've observed. I guess it's not just a stereotype. The version I heard is that of all nationalities surveyed, Canadians and Singaporeans are the only ones who invariably wait at a red light, at least initially.
All I know is, I have a buddy in Connecticut who visits from time to time, and the first time he was here, four or five years ago, I remember him expressing surprise that a red light in Toronto really meant stop. According to him, in Connecticut, it's typical for (as he estimated it) two more cars to enter and clear the intersection AFTER the light turns red. It's just taken as the norm.
The idea horrifies me. It sounds like it's just a de facto extension of the yellow light until you consider that it's entirely arbitrary. What happens the first time the third, or fourth, guy decides to blow though, or doesn't realize there already were two before him? What happens when someone from Nebraska shows up and doesn't know the "real" rules? What happens when some pedestrian from NYC, also ignorant of Connecticut's peculiarities, arrives with her own ideas on the applicability of crossing signals?
Everyone wants, everyone's got a "good reason", to be THE exception to the rule. But if everyone's the exception, there's no rule. When you look at American exceptionalism and the wonders it's done in the world in the last 15 years or so, it's not hard to perceive another slight but telling difference between the mindsets represented by the border. Not rules for their own sake, but rules for OUR own sake.
One thing I've noticed as a Canadian driver:
Cars will not slow down to allow you to change lanes in front of them. It actually seems worse than in Manhattan.
... selfish Ontario fuckers.
I don't know about the whole country, or even all of Ontario, but around Toronto, yeah. The same guy who just opened the door for you in the mall will blithely cut you off on the way out of the parking lot. There's something about driving, the anonymity of it, that seems to bring out some of the worst instincts in people. Me included. I find myself doing things I consider less than generous, things I'd never consider doing if I were face to face with someone, and then spending the next ten minutes wondering why the hell I just behaved like that. What did I have to lose in making someone's life a little easier? What, was he going to run around telling everyone I'm a soft sh!t or something? He doesn't even know who I am... except I'm a jerk who made his life just a little bit harder.
The better angels of our nature don't win out with me every time, but I do make an effort now to try to remember to give other drivers a break. I think it gets paid forward, and if enough of us do it, attitudes will change. Mind you, it only takes a few creeps to consistently take advantage to poison the well again. In truth, sometimes I'm surprised traffic in Toronto still works as well as it does.
According to him, in Connecticut, it's typical for (as he estimated it) two more cars to enter and clear the intersection AFTER the light turns red. It's just taken as the norm.
Xref my comments about our old NYC neighbourhood. The light would change, then (as a pedestrian) I would wait for 2 or 3 or 4 cars to go through the red, then I'd cautiously cross.
Remember, though, this post was about walking against the lights - not driving. If I look in all directions, and no cars are in sight, and I walk across the street, I can't hurt anybody. I'm not talking about hurtling two tons of steel through the intersection.
Given that several people have said that elsewhere in Canada, people do cross against the lights, I would be hesitant about drawing too many parallels about American exceptionalism here.
Way back there was mention of the Darwin awards.
I vaguely recall this annual award for humans who fail to make correct judgements in situations that appear to be simply requiring common sense and end up (usually) dead.
http://www.darwinawards.com/
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