tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7593664.post5248872992607046713..comments2024-03-22T14:13:55.418-07:00Comments on wmtc: further to rebecca solnit: angry men attack me onlinelaura khttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05524593142290489958noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7593664.post-50528832994272965252020-12-29T05:20:27.632-08:002020-12-29T05:20:27.632-08:00Thanks, M@ :)
I think for some men, it's so u...Thanks, M@ :)<br /><br />I think for some men, it's so uncomfortable that it can't be done -- a lot of work would have to be done first. Because society has also taught them being "shown up" by a woman makes them weak, unmanly -- makes them a pussy. (My least favourite taunt, equating being female with being weak.) And if this happens in front of people, even online, it can't be tolerated.<br /><br />IRL, a man's perception that he's been embarrassed by a woman often leads to violence. <br /><br /><br /><br />laura khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05524593142290489958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7593664.post-74120424029632621142020-12-28T21:27:00.257-08:002020-12-28T21:27:00.257-08:00It can be very instructive, as a man, to stop and ...It can be very instructive, as a man, to stop and consider why you react so strongly to certain expressed points of view. It's also uncomfortable as hell, which is probably why we rarely do it... and society has taught us that that is perfectly okay. Whew.<br /><br />(Also: I still get a little eye twitch when I think of poppygate...)M@https://www.blogger.com/profile/13408488215496128814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7593664.post-60282400784447012492020-12-28T14:32:26.246-08:002020-12-28T14:32:26.246-08:00Thank you MSEH!Thank you MSEH!laura khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05524593142290489958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7593664.post-76706629340670700082020-12-28T14:32:00.179-08:002020-12-28T14:32:00.179-08:00WGH, making space for others to speak is not about...WGH, making space for others to speak is not about gender per se. It's about the power imbalance in the larger society. I've been at plenty of meetings where there is one man and eight women, and the man still monopolizes speaking time, interrupts women, talks over them, doesn't hear them. <br /><br />In a predominantly Black space, I don't think we need to make space for the white people. <br /><br />Perhaps in your situation, it is more about making space for quiet people to speak up. <br /><br />Just my thoughts of course! laura khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05524593142290489958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7593664.post-74427696400871168902020-12-28T08:46:01.677-08:002020-12-28T08:46:01.677-08:00This.
And... OMG. Amy's comments re faculty ...This. <br /><br />And... OMG. Amy's comments re faculty meetings. Yes, yes, yes.MSEHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02415018485671115445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7593664.post-10640019021345546742020-12-28T06:36:55.822-08:002020-12-28T06:36:55.822-08:00I like this: "One of the "ground rules&q...I like this: "One of the "ground rules" for the group was to "make space for all voices". This meant making sure that male voices don't drown out female, white voice don't drown out POC, and -- most relevant to me -- people who are comfortable speaking don't drown out voices of the less assured."<br />I'm going to use it at my staff meetings, but flip to ivibg space to hear the often lone male voice in the room full off women.With God's Helphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05829013347035897920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7593664.post-16925373214424175682020-12-27T15:17:00.043-08:002020-12-27T15:17:00.043-08:00It really did give me hope to see how devoted to p...It really did give me hope to see how devoted to progressive causes she was and how very smart and effective she was. I told her many times she was an inspiration to me.Amyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15720293202890878993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7593664.post-91248530388476483092020-12-27T14:24:01.352-08:002020-12-27T14:24:01.352-08:00Wow, that's amazing. In New York I worked with...Wow, that's amazing. In New York I worked with a bunch of 20-something recent grads, doing abortion-access work, and I couldn't believe how great they were, how focused and mature. Hope!laura khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05524593142290489958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7593664.post-34816164732649627532020-12-27T12:44:17.971-08:002020-12-27T12:44:17.971-08:00Our moderator was a wonderful 22-year old recent c...Our moderator was a wonderful 22-year old recent college grad who did a masterful job of organizing and inspiring us all. She was remarkable. But my guess is she was reluctant to cut off a woman three times her age. She might have been more willing had it been a man.Amyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15720293202890878993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7593664.post-22306236784005781332020-12-26T09:59:20.600-08:002020-12-26T09:59:20.600-08:00I don't find that odd at all. Those men have n...I don't find that odd at all. Those men have not been taught to recognize their own privilege. My view is also coloured by having grown up with a parent who was passionate about civil rights and social justice... except in his own home. :)<br /><br />In my experience, there is always someone who doesn't know how to stop talking. Often there is more than one. It's the moderator's job to interrupt and ask them to wrap it up. <br /><br />One of my HUGE !!! pet peeves is when moderators don't do this.laura khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05524593142290489958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7593664.post-84363905752598661412020-12-26T09:49:46.644-08:002020-12-26T09:49:46.644-08:00What was odd and sad about my experience at facult...What was odd and sad about my experience at faculty meetings was that these were all very intelligent men who would never consider themselves sexist. These were, after all, law professors---very much aware of problems with discrimination and, I hope, sensitive to these issues in their classrooms---making sure women and other generally silenced groups were encouraged to speak. But they were so socialized to hear only men that in a faculty meeting setting, they regressed to their less-evolved state.<br /><br />In my political campaign work this year we had Zoom team meetings once a week where the "make space" rule was announced. And these were mostly women. Yet there was one woman who never seemed to realize how much time she monopolized with her own stories and comments. So how did your union enforce that rule without embarrassing those who took too much time?Amyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15720293202890878993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7593664.post-74671307687429268502020-12-26T06:15:39.785-08:002020-12-26T06:15:39.785-08:00Last year I attended a learning retreat with my un...Last year I attended a learning retreat with my union. One of the "ground rules" for the group was to "make space for all voices". This meant making sure that male voices don't drown out female, white voice don't drown out POC, and -- most relevant to me -- people who are comfortable speaking don't drown out voices of the less assured. <br /><br />It was brilliant. The next time I find myself in a group setting where we are setting ground rules, I will suggest this.laura khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05524593142290489958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7593664.post-16482515862214266972020-12-26T06:11:35.087-08:002020-12-26T06:11:35.087-08:00That must be so incredibly frustrating. I'm su...That must be so incredibly frustrating. I'm sure you know (not that it helps -- might make it worse!) that it's also incredibly common and well-documented. <br /><br />I'm fortunate in that most of my collaborative pursuits, whether work or activism, have been predominantly female. When there are men involved, they tend to be feminist, and very aware of the need to be respectful. laura khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05524593142290489958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7593664.post-6120519003664109592020-12-26T06:02:28.196-08:002020-12-26T06:02:28.196-08:00It's a more hateful variation on what I experi...It's a more hateful variation on what I experienced at faculty meetings. We'd be debating some academic issue, and I'd offer a suggestion for resolving the dispute. Man #1 would repeat what I'd said without any recognition of the fact that I'd just made the same suggestion. From then on, Man #1 would get credit for his brilliant suggestion, and I would get none. Once I got tenure, I would just chime in with, "Excuse me, but I just said that same thing." Eventually the men noticed I was in the room. (This was also when there were only three women on the faculty alont with 25 men.)<br /><br />I am sure if I'd said something they all found distasteful, they would have happily labeled it as my suggestion!Amyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15720293202890878993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7593664.post-43311024855503579692020-12-25T01:15:02.808-08:002020-12-25T01:15:02.808-08:00The attacks can be especially vicious if the comme...<i>The attacks can be especially vicious if the commenter doesn't know that he's flinging his verbal feces at the blogger's partner.</i><br /><br />This was, of course, back before I used comment moderation. A favourite scene was when an idiot attacked L (not knowing her connection to me) and I had not yet weighed in, but other commenters (who had seen this play out before) were making cryptic comments about it! Inevitably, every time I'd say "That opinion you hate? I expressed it first. Why not criticize me?", there would be no response and the guy would never return.<br /><br />(Re Poppygate: "<a href="https://psmag.com/social-justice/women-arent-welcome-internet-72170" rel="nofollow">Why Women Aren't Welcome On The Internet</a>")allanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04673233312198832937noreply@blogger.com