11.04.2009

maine goes in the wrong direction

What bad news from Maine.

Don't lose hope, egalitarian USians. There are always setbacks. You will get there. The only question is when. "How long? Not long."

30 comments:

Stephanie said...

Oh this is so sad! :(

James said...

It's amazing how far you can get using wads of money in place of a coherent argument.

Terri said...

This bout of hate was funded by the same people who brought their hate to my home state of California. Shame on any liberal-minded person who stayed home and didn't vote against this.

Amy said...

Waking up to this news this morning has already ruined my day. Sometimes I actually have faith in people...and then they stomp all over that faith.

Nigel Patel said...

Dishonor: take 31.

L-girl said...

It's very disheartening, and it's hard to fight so much money.

I hope this inspires more non-gay people to join the fight.

Nigel Patel said...

I'm still in!

impudent strumpet said...

Why do so many people have so much time and energy to put into ruining other people's lives?

redsock said...

Why do so many people have so much time and energy to put into ruining other people's lives?

Self-loathing?

johngoldfine said...

I can't say I thought my marriage was noticeably stronger when I woke up this morning than when I went to sleep the night before, even though 53% of my fellow voting Mainers had Stood Up For Marriage.

L-girl, it's certainly true that much money was lavished on tossing out same-sex marriage. But I think the ad campaigns were pretty much a wash, neither side doing much to persuade people in the other camp or even the undecided.

Fact is, 53 % of Mainers voting yesterday dislike homosexuality, big city fancy ways, and anything arriving from outside their parish or from anytime after 1958.

L-girl said...

JohnGoldfine, I really appreciate your perspective as a Mainer. There are certain things one can only understand from the inside.

I freely admit I paid very little attention to the specifics of the Maine fight, but many progressives online believe it was lost b/c the other side was so well funded. While that plays a part, I have a feeling your answer is closer to the truth. Sad.

L-girl said...

Why do so many people have so much time and energy to put into ruining other people's lives?

Afraid of change?

James said...

Fact is, 53 % of Mainers voting yesterday dislike homosexuality, big city fancy ways, and anything arriving from outside their parish or from anytime after 1958.

In Letters from Wingfield Farm, the character of Walt Wingfield, a Bay Street stockbroker who moves to the country to take up farming, observers, "It looked like the only way to get people out here to accept me would be to arrange to have been born here fifty years ago."

James said...

A great comment from Blag Hag: You know what else is an abomination, Maine? Lobster

johngoldfine said...

It's worth noting that the Catholic Church in the state had an official stand on the same-sex marriage referendum and took up special collections in church to raise money for the 'wrong direction.'

Andrew Sullivan has been very sharp lately on the bizarre hypocrisy of the Church's war on gays.

L-girl said...

You know what else is an abomination, Maine? Lobster

Cool. :)

Andrew Sullivan has been very sharp lately on the bizarre hypocrisy of the Church's war on gays.

I would love to be equally sharp about the bizarre hypocrisy of Andrew Sullivan, gay Catholic conservative.

James said...

Here's a nice comment from a blog post about the recent problems of the Church of Scientology, talking about Andrew Sullivan's writings on the subject:

Andrew Sullivan has been blogging about Scientology, calling it the “Super Adventure Club” and prefacing his stories with clips from South Park episodes (from whence that nickname comes) that savagely satirize the religion.

That would be the same Andrew Sullivan who complained about how uncivil atheists are.

Curiously, when he writes about Catholicism, he doesn’t preface those pieces with the South Park episode on paedophilia in the Church, or call it “Fantastic Child-Diddler Association”.

johngoldfine said...

James--AS has fought for gay marriage for a long long time. I terrorized writing students 20 years ago with the cover of the New Republic (he was editor) showing two fellows on a wedding cake.

He's been relentless in his attacks on Bush/Cheyney destruction of civil rights, introduction or normalizaton of torture, and so on. He's been wrong on things like invading Iraq--and been willing to admit his mistakes to the world.

He holds no brief for Scientology but has bitterly attacked the Catholic Church over the pedophilia scandals and the subsequent cover-ups. His politics or religion may not please you, but I don't think he's a hypocrite.

Nigel Patel said...

Why do so many people have so much time and energy to put into ruining other people's lives?

I agree with Redsock, these attackers (Ted Haggard, Larry Craig, Pete LaBarbara, etc) are in the closet themselves.

L-girl said...

AS has fought for gay marriage for a long long time.

This is well known (I'd be shocked if James didn't know it), as is his support for the invasion of Iraq, his lame turnaround, his so-called compromise stance on abortion. And yes, I do regard him as a massive hypocrite. As I said: gay, conservative, Catholic.

James said...

This is well known (I'd be shocked if James didn't know it)

Yes, and I'm not faulting him there. Now, to be fair, I get most of his stuff second-hand (I don't follow his blog), but from the material I've seen, it does seem that he makes a lot more excuses for Catholicism than he accepts from other religious views.

I don't have a problem with his Catholicism, but I do have a problem with his complaining about people who criticize the Catholic Church while he himself criticizes other religious organizations in terms at least as strong.

That said, Sullivan's certainly no Bill Donohue, and I hold out some hope that he'll have a Paul Haggis moment and realize that the GOP and the Catholic Church are actively working against his best interests.

johngoldfine said...

But l-girl!

Where't the hypocrisy in being gay and Catholic?--it's the pink mafia in the Vatican who might be considered hypocrites.

And where's the hypocrisy in being conservative and Catholic; those seem nearly synonomous, barring the Dorothy Day/Catholic Worker faction of the Church, not much in evidence these days.

Do you mean that no intelligent person could conceivably hold his positions? That only massive hypocrisy could explain opposition to abortion, belief in just war, and so on?

L-girl said...

Perhaps hypocrisy is not the right word. But if you don't mind, I'd like to just pass on this.

I intensely dislike both Sullivan's positions on most things and his manner of arguing them. I can see you feel otherwise, and that's fine. Each to his own. But I didn't bring him up and would prefer not to continue discussing him. Thanks.

johngoldfine said...

Sure thing, l-girl.

L-girl said...

Thank you. :) And of course I know there's no contradiction between being Catholic and conservative. As if!

redsock said...

Sullivan once mentioned my blog. Back in December 2004, when I still did political stuff (often 9/11-related) in addition to baseball, he noted:

"Joy of Sox, the only blog that offers both Red Sox coverage and far-out left wing conspiracy theories in one convenient package."

James said...

Where't the hypocrisy in being gay and Catholic?

None intrinsically, but there is in being gay and defending the policies of the Catholic Church, given how anti-gay the Church is.

And where's the hypocrisy in being conservative and Catholic

None, but there is in being gay and defending the policies of (contemporary US style) conservatism, given how anti-gay the right is in the US.

L-girl said...

Oh yeah! I knew there was at least one thing I liked about him!

impudent strumpet said...

I don't know anyone who identifies as both gay and catholic, but I'm wondering if it's like being catholic and using birth control. So many people just shrug off the birth control ban as old-fashioned and irrelevant, plan their families, and just keep going to church. I can't put myself in that headspace, but it is very common.

L-girl said...

I know lots of gay *former* Catholics!

But only one person, a former very close friend, who is lesbian and a practicing Catholic. She does exactly what you're saying here regarding birth control - ignores it and lives her life.

She was married to a man for a long time, and similarly ignored the birth control ban. She comes from a family of 13, so I guess her parents were a bit more observant.

I don't get it either. I can't imagine choosing to be part of something that rejects such a basic part of you. But it's easier for me to say that, as an atheist.