1.10.2007

"we had to fire no matter what"

As the Resident prepares to announce that more American lives will be wasted in Iraq, I want to highlight someone who has already been there - and who has risked his own freedom in the fight to end this war for private profit.

Twenty-year-old Ivan Brobeck, of Arlington, Virginia, had been living in Canada. During his tour of duty in Iraq in 2004, Brobeck witnessed the commonplace abuse of Iraqi detainees and the murder of Iraqi civilians at military checkpoints. Rather than go back for a second stint, he went to Canada. Brobeck regards the war as illegal and immoral, and against both the interests and the moral standards of ordinary Americans.

That is brave enough. But Ivan Brobeck wasn't satisfied with escaping the war himself. He wanted to help end it altogether. On Election Day, Brobeck returned to the US to deliver a letter to Bush and Congress.
November 6, 2006

Dear President Bush,

I grew up in Arlington, Virginia. Joining the military was something I always wanted to do. Throughout my life I've heard of all the wonderful things the U.S. has achieved. They have always been there to fight for what is right. I was willing to join the military and risk my life for my country and to fight for what is right just like others have done. When I was 17 years old I enlisted in the Marine Corps. Since I was still in high school I had to complete my senior year.

When the U.S. was going to war with Iraq, I was confident that my country must be doing the right thing. I couldn't see a reason why they would lie to us. One week after I graduated high school I was sent off to Marine Corps boot camp. Near the end of boot camp the only thing that was told to us about Iraq was that we were going to be sent to Iraq to die (that's how the Drill Instructor's joke).

After boot camp I was sent to infantry training, and after I finished that I was sent to my unit in Camp Lejeune, N.C. All we did was train for Iraq. I didn't have cable T.V. so I had little exposure to the world around me; I knew that Iraq was getting worse and that there were people who didn't agree with the war.

I left for Iraq in March of 2004. It wasn't until I got there that I found out what was really happening. I didn't need the news or to hear speeches to tell me that what was happening there was wrong. It was all as clear as day. The city I went to was called Mahmudiyah, and had around 200,000 people. There was just a constant disrespect for the people, like pointing guns at the people just to get them to stop. There was also harsh treatment of detainees.

I remember one night I had come back to base after a nighttime raid, and was clearing my rifle in a clearing barrel. I turned around, and out of the corner of my eye I saw something get thrown out of the back of a truck called a 7 ton (the bed of the truck is about 6 to 7ft high). It looked like a person, but I thought I was mistaken, that since it was dark outside my eyes were probably playing tricks on me.

When a lot of Marines started gathering around and quietly talking I went to see what they were looking at. It was an Iraqi detainee with his hands behind his back and a sandbag over is head. The detainee's body was convulsing and his breathing sounded like he was snoring. When the sand bag was taken off his head and a light was shined in his face I could see that his eyes were swollen shut and his nose was clogged with blood.

Checkpoints are where innocent civilians die. When manning a checkpoint, about 50 meters away is something called the TRP (target reference point). The TRP is usually marked by a cone or some sort of debris. If someone passes that line you have to open fire on the vehicle and the person inside.

We all knew that if a suicide bomber were to attack that it would just be him in the car and that there would not be any innocent women or children in the car. We were never told to use our own good judgment and to not fire if there were women and children in the car. We had to fire no matter what. I've had a couple friends who have opened fire on a car that crossed the TRP and it turned out that they just killed a kid, or someone's brother or wife.

I just remember my corporal saying something like "Oh, Lcpl is a little down today because he accidentally shot a kid in the head today". During my 7 months in Iraq I have never shot an innocent person and I am glad I don't have that burden to deal with.

I came back from Iraq in October of 2004. I was willing to stay in the military and put the events that happened in Iraq behind me, but when I heard rumors of us returning to Iraq the stress and anxiety of what happened there started coming back to me. I was not willing to go back and fight a war that I did not believe was right, and I didn't want to put myself in a situation were I would possibly kill an innocent civilian. So, I went AWOL and hid out at a friend's house until I figured out what to do. While I was AWOL my mom took me to a therapist who diagnosed me with PTSD.

Since I was not willing to return to Iraq, the only option I saw was to go to Canada. I have spent nearly two years there living, working, and married to my wife (who is six months pregnant).

Now I feel that I am ready to return to the US and face the consequences of refusing to participate in a war that I do not believe is right. When I return on Election Day, I face a court martial and a charge of Missing Movement with punishment of up to one year in jail.

Please, President Bush: do what is right. And do everything you can to bring our troops home from Iraq.

Sincerely,

Ivan Brobeck
On December 5, Brobeck plead guilty to "Unauthorized Absence" and "Missing Movement" at his court martial.

Brobeck's wife, Lisa Brobeck, has released this statement:
The United States Marine Corps has been diligent in resolving this matter quickly, in order for Ivan to be released in time for the birth of his son. Ivan has been treated fairly, within the confines of the UCMJ but, there is a bigger picture here that is overlooked when focusing on an individual circumstance. The American public has been lied to and bullied by an administration with little regard for the welfare of the servicemen and women who put their lives on the line everyday. I ask that the American public demand an end to this war and then demand answers from the very government that started it.

It is important that Ivan receive mail everyday, so he is constantly reminded that he is not alone during this time in the brig and that he is supported in his brave and courageous stand.

Thank You,
Lisa Brobeck
You can write to Ivan Brobeck at:
Lcpl Ivan S. Brobeck
MCB Quantico Brig
3247 Elrod Avenue
Quantico, Virginia 22134
As always, visit Courage To Resist for updates on Brobeck, Ehren Watada, the first officer to refuse deployment to Iraq, Suzanne Swift, who was recently released from military prison, Kyle Snyder, who continues to speak out, despite being AWOL and the risk of arrest, Augustin Aguayo, imprisoned in Germany and fighting for conscientious objector status, and many other war resisters.

The sniveling chickenhawk living in the White House was too scared, too rich, and too coked up to go to Vietnam. Unelected president Cheney had other priorities. Today, young men and women who have seen war, who have made war, know that this war is wrong and must be stopped.

I keep asking myself, if they can risk court martial and imprisonment, what can I do to help stop this war?

33 comments:

Jere said...

You do so much already, Laura. Just keep informing people. Thanks for drawing my attention to this guy's letter.

Protests throughout the country tomorrow in response to Bush sending more folks off to die. Times Square at 6 PM for anyone who lives in NYC.

L-girl said...

Hey, thank you, Jere. I really appreciate that.

I feel the need to get directly involved. I'm looking into ways to do that.

doug said...

it's up to the American people, they have to finally just protest, they have to get off the pot and not look to politicans to resolve this....Bush in his telecast tonight mentioned no diplomacy, no talks just force, the "mission"...he doesn't listen to the American people, to recommendations he seriously is a very deluded,unhealthy individual...it will be interesting to see the American people's response, not the political response....Americans need to take back their country and snap out of this post 9/11 paralysis....the unspoken anger in that country must be palpable...

L-girl said...

There is an peace movement in the US, which goes largely unnoticed and unreported. But as long as there's no draft - as long as other people's children are dying - it will remain under the critical mass.

On the other hand, it's extremely frutstrating for those that are protesting, because they (we) are completely ignored.

doug said...

the peace movement of today centres on the internet, bloggers...if you surf you can find thousands of sites, comments of anger, frustration towards this administration and the war...I am aware of the peace movement in the states but as you said no draft one rules out a large source of it's effectiveness interms of students, campuses.....they need a huge march, marches..hundred thousand then they won't be ignored...and not just one march, one day..it needs to be a constant pounding, a constant bobbardment...

politicians have been put on these pedestals even in Canada in terms of looking to them for answers...gun violence(let them pass a law public thinks well that's that done), it', not going to work, it won't decrease gun violence, it's up to the people to tackle the issues, not leave it to governments, politicians as you will be waitng a long-time...

L-girl said...

they need a huge march, marches..hundred thousand then they won't be ignored...and not just one march, one day..it needs to be a constant pounding, a constant bobbardment...

I agree with you, but it's not as easy as it sounds, or maybe you don't mean to make it sound so easy. It's quite amazing how much time and money that takes, and how easily it is completely ignored by media and govt.

It's impossible to overstate how unresponsive the US govt is to the people. One small example, on the run-up to the invasion of Iraq, calls and faxes were flooding Hillary Clinton's office about voting in favour of the war, running 3-to-1 for her voting no. She voted yes. This is very typical.

On Feb 15, 2003, literally millions of Americans in hundreds of cities took to the streets (leaving aside the global demos) to tell their govt they were against the invasion - almost half a million in NYC alone. When something of that magnitude is wholly ignored, it makes organizing the populace an unbelievably difficult task.

Politicians can't solve problems, but they are the ones who order the military funding and call up the troops.

If you haven't already, I strongly recommend seeing "Why We Fight" on DVD. It's a stunning look inside the US war machine.

doug said...

Yes I am aware of the "War Machine Economy" read today about the war costing 347,000,000,000 so far(on CNN to boot)...but like Vietnam the politicans or the ones that mattered didn't listen either they kept sinking further into the quagmire...but peole demonstrated, got arrested, got killed(Kent State) but the public's viewpoint was still known....now some anonymous blogger states their anger and that's it, as you are well aware of the info on the internet is staggering, the posts..but it's a quiet protest as one can ignore it if one pleases....

in regards to the senate votes on going to war that is a skewed statistic as at the time America was in it's post 9/11 stupor and everything was on the table..Patriot Act, Homeland Security etc...but now the time has passed...Americans need to step to the plate....

I have been very disappointed and quietly angry at the lack of response to not only this war, but New Orleans as well by Americans to demand accountability....347,000,000,000 spent on this war, without debate..but a raise in the minimum wage to $7.25 a hour is met with more argument, resistance...mind-boggling, and really sickening at the same time...

L-girl said...

It is certainly both mind-boggling and sickening.

There are many, many more protests - physical protests - than you realize. That's because the media does not report on them. The corporate media renders the actions invisible.

This was the same in the Vietnam era - before the draft. It was only after the student deferment was eliminated that the peace movement mushroomed - that is, after the middle class was affected.

You're right about the anger on the internet, but the internet is an enormous boon to organizing. Anyone my age or older who organized both before and after the advent of the internet can attest to that. It saves thousands of people-hours and millions of dollars.

It's always hard to bring people into the streets. It's no harder now than it was then. The civil rights movement (for example) was going on in the South - invisible to mainstream America - all through the late 1950s and early 1960s, but nobody outside of the movement heard of it or saw it until 1963.

in regards to the senate votes on going to war that is a skewed statistic as at the time America was in it's post 9/11 stupor and everything was on the table..

What I said about the non-responsiveness of the US govt to the will of the people is not at all skewed - it is 100% typical.

347,000,000,000 spent on this war, without debate..but a raise in the minimum wage to $7.25 a hour is met with more argument, resistance

And again, this is what the US Congress does - no matter which party controls it.

I understand what you're saying that it's up to the people, and I agree with you. But if the govt does not respond to the will of the people, because it is not really a democracy, what does one do then?

doug said...

dregball one can do is do something...Rosa Parks had no ulterior motive, no planning, just a lifelong feeling of resentment, anger and finally just said fuck-this on the spur of the moment and was the trigger for a whole movement, without any expectations on her part...people have expectations and they shouldn't...the picture I have hanging over my desk and I get a lot of different reactions to is the one of the fellow standing in front of the tank in Tiananmen Square a unbelievable image....imagine the audacity, the stupidity, the utter failure to see the consequences of one's actions but he did it...did it result in change not really, was it worth it absolutely, it was him making a stand against the system he was facing...all we can do is do what we feel, without expectation, without feeling it should result in change...

the mother that raises a child in the projects faces obstacles everyday, but she can't give up, it's her children it may be for naught, it may result in a success story, it may not, but the outcome is not important...I worked with a teenager who was a serial car thief, he had no remorse, didn't care in the least...all I said to him and it worked for whatever reason is ..."John it doesn't matter what I think, it doesn't matter about the courts letting you off, nor what anybody thinks...all that matters is that if you like looking in the mirror and seeing what you see then fine, if you don't then change, if you feel proud looking at a thief then so be it".

it's corny but true..we can't not do nothing because of the system, the media, the government we owe it to ourselves to do something....and change does occur, just ask Rosa Parks...expectations and thought sometimes stops the doing...

doug said...

see 3,ooo people marched in New Orleans today on city hall demanding a end to the violence, the apathy...good for them they need to become more vocal....demand change....

L-girl said...

Rosa Parks had no ulterior motive, no planning, just a lifelong feeling of resentment, anger and finally just said fuck-this on the spur of the moment and was the trigger for a whole movement

Doug, Rosa Parks was part of the movement for 10 years before her famous action. She was chosen by Martin Luther King, Bob Moses and other organizers as the right woman for the job, because of unassailable character, the ability to withstand jail, and other factors.

Her famous refusal to move from her seat was planned down to the most minute detail - the day, the time, who the driver would be, who the arresting officer would be.

If you need proof of this, I can tell you what books to read. The history of the civil rights movement will confirm this.

I agree with much of what you say, but your reading of how movements function is incorrect.

L-girl said...

Also, I wasn't saying anything about giving up. I would think it would be obvious that I don't advocate shrugging our shoulders and saying we can't change things.

I believe utterly and totally in people's movements. In the US, it's the only thing that has ever led to change.

My question was truly meant as a question: when the government is not responsive to the people, what can the people do? We need creativity, organizing, planning, belief, money, publicity, anger, perserverance - we need it all.

Kyahgirl said...

Hi Laura, its been too long since I visited.
I am really glad you posted about Ivan. I'm writing him a letter right now!

doug said...

I know you are not advocating giving up, nor am I disagreeing with anything you are saying...I am saying people need to get off their ass and do something if they are unhappy as they say....that's it in a nutshell, ...two articles I saw today 1)70% of Americans opposed to troop increase 2)in the New York Times a article of two ridings in mid-Pennsylvania that were always pre-dominantly Republican but last time voted Democrat, interviewing lifelong Repub's who voted for the Dems and their anger, frustration after this latest speech....really interesting, main theme was resignation...

I won't go to any march in the states until the American public starts showing they give a dam, break out of their malaise...

Rosa Parks could not have happened without the will of the people, no one thought change would ever come in South Africa, many instances ..of course through movements, organized scenarios but all driven by the masses, media, government be damned...

I'm watching a film right now called Medium Cool about a journalist and the 1968 Chicago Riots, a organized movement but nothing without the sacriface, of the people taking a stand..a movement is nothing without passion and commitment..

L-girl said...

Kyahgirl! I'm glad to see you here, and thanks so much for writing that letter. Hey, guess what? We're adopting a new pup! Search this blog for "tala".

Doug, you're right, I always use South Africa as an example. It is probably the most massive example of a successful freedom movement in our lifetimes. (Not accomplished without violence, it's worth noting.)

Re Rosa Parks, that "one lone seamstress" myth is part of how people like to imagine these things, the "one person can make a difference" scenario. My point is that each person is important but only together are we strong enough to make change.

doug said...

here's the best news of the day...

The Los Angeles Dodgers are converting their right-field pavilion into all-you-can-eat bleachers. Takers will have access to as many hot dogs, peanuts, popcorn, nachos and soft drinks as they want.Around 3,000 seats right-field seats will be sold for $35 in advance and $40 on game day with the all-you-can-eat special.

now that's a grand idea..what a deal at the Skydome a bag of peanuts, hotdog, pop will cost you close to $20 alone..

lindsey starr said...

Hi Laura,
Thanks for posting this. It is horrifying and we know it is true and why oh why can't our media cover all of the realities? ... because we wouldn't be able to handle it and just stay still doing nothing about it. It is horrifying.

'We, the people' would be so outraged at the realities of the things happening there. Then the government would really have to deal with so many people out there speaking out and reacting far more than what is being done now. But since the media keeps it hushed, they can continue their stupidity, and the 'war'.

I appreciate that you have put this on your blog, and will link to it.
Thank you!
~Lindsey

redsock said...

Doug wrote: "I won't go to any march in the states until the American public starts showing they give a dam, break out of their malaise...

What if large numbers of people have broken out of their malaise and have shown they give a damn, but no major media outlet -- not even one -- will report it or show any pictures? Then what?

Your inaction is being scripted and directed by the mainstream media. Which means the media is doing its most important job.

L-girl said...

What if large numbers of people have broken out of their malaise and have shown they give a damn, but no major media outlet -- not even one -- will report it or show any pictures?

That's why "people's anger, let the media be damned" doesn't make any sense.

It's difficult or impossible for a protest to have an effect if no one sees it. The South African apartheid regime didn't have a media blackout for nothing. In this case, the corporate media doesn't need to be ordered by the govt, they're ready and willing and eager to do the job without an invitation.

As I said above, there is a large peace movement in the US - and not only on the internet. But it's easy to think there is none, since the protests are largely invisible.

Anyone who discounts the media's role in keeping the war machine going and silencing protest doesn't understand how the US media works.

L-girl said...

Lindsey, you're so right. Thanks for your comment and the link.

doug said...

you blame all America's ills on the media...a peace movement is not 50 people standing in Times Square waving some signs....movement, media...all hyperbole'...yes and we in Canada are just "dumb" hicks that don't know about America's media machine....just a lot of excuses....

plus it's not our war we at the time had a leader smart enough to stay out of that mess as did most of the G8 nations and the rest of the world...Americans need to do something about it instead of quit whining

L-girl said...

you blame all America's ills on the media

No, we do not. We acknowledge that the media is a major culprit in the mess.

a peace movement is not 50 people standing in Times Square waving some signs

Where are you getting that from? A movement is all people and all actions who are working for peace.

yes and we in Canada are just "dumb" hicks that don't know about America's media machine

WTF are you talking about? When did ANYone on this blog EVER say ANYthing like that?

Many people in Canada do not know the full extent of the media problem in the US, just as many Americans know very little about how Canada operates. Ignorance goes both ways. It doesn't make anyone dumb, or hicks, or anything like that - and no one here said anything like that.

Why don't you read the thread and respond to what's there, or go away and cool off.

....just a lot of excuses....

Reasons.

plus it's not our war we at the time had a leader smart enough to stay out of that mess as did most of the G8 nations and the rest of the world

Yes. Who claimed otherwise? What the fuck are you talking about?

Americans need to do something about it instead of quit whining

We are whining? We are protesting. You said you wouldn't take part in any protest in the US til Americans woke up. Many of us think Americans *are* woken up. YOU brought up your involvement, no one else. We're all well aware it's not Canada's war.

Maybe take a deep breath and try again next week.

L-girl said...

a peace movement is not 50 people standing in Times Square waving some signs

You know, as I re-read this, I realize what an ignorant, hostile and gratutiously nasty comment it is.

People stood "waving signs" all over the US yesterday, in hundreds of different cities and towns, to protest what their government is doing in their name. That's what a movement is: people doing what they can. Every action, every bit of information, every expression, working and trying and building.

Would you rather those 50 people (not that you were there, so you don't know how many people were protesting) stay home? Perhaps you'd prefer they go to a blog and sneer at other protestors on the internet?

These are rhetorical question, by the way. I'm not expecting an answer, and I don't really care what you think at this point. Rosa Parks got fed up one day, a peace movement is not 50 people waving signs, and it's not your war anyway, your leaders are smarter. You've got it all figured out.

lindsey starr said...

Americans need to do something about it instead of quit whining

which is what many are trying to do by staging the protests.

you blame all America's ills on the media...... yes and we in Canada are just "dumb" hicks that don't know about America's media machine

no not blaming, but rather aware... and acknowledging that, as an american, who lives in the US and watches the news, I see how much is NOT reported. and right, nobody said anything about Canadians being 'dumb hicks'. (although you have shown that you in particuar are ignorant)

Laura's so right as usual. Go take a big breath, and walk away for a while. And think about what others might be experiencing somewhere else, both overseas and in the US as well.

and about protesting... what else would be suggested other than what those of us who are outraged are already doing? Would love to know, as many would love to do it. This war is beyond stupid and atrocious. Basically it seems that most people are against it, but seem frustrated as to how to stop it.

doug- even in your first response to this post you said
the unspoken anger in that country must be palpable...
it is.


Many of us don't like Bush. We can't change it at the moment. And when we try we get frustrated with all of the ways that the whole voting thing is scammed too. You also said that we shouldn't look to the politicians to resolve this..... huh? so how do you think that we should get all of the troops home then, and stop the war?
(I don't really want your answer here though- it's clear you haven't a clue)

Many of us want out of here (the US), which is part of why Laura and this blog became so popular in the first place.

Another part is that we enjoy reading her well-read, well-written, and well-informed blog and that she isn't shy about just putting it out there for many of us to read.

Keep going Laura. I do care what you think.

L-girl said...

Thank you so much, Lindsey.

Doug is generally a welcome and informed commenter, but this isn't the first time he's lashed out. By now I think we should all know enough to think twice before we hit that publish key.

The people surely have to lead the politicians, that we've seen time and time again. But ultimately, the politicians are the only ones who have the power to actually order the troops or pull the plug. That's what's so frustrating!

Unless every military person refused to fight - an unrealistic fantasy - how can we stop the war? Of course we have to keep trying all the ways we know how, but when those ways are ignored and silenced, what can we do? I mean this question very literally.

All Doug could offer was platitudes about passion and commitment. But what form should our passion and commitment take?

The govt doesn't care what we think, it has its own agenda, and that agenda does not include the wishes of the people. That's what makes the arduous task of building a peace movement even more frustrating.

People waving signs in Times Square is infinitely better than those same people staying home.

L-girl said...

Re-reading this thread, I see that perhaps this is easily misinterpreted.

It's impossible to overstate how unresponsive the US govt is to the people. One small example, on the run-up to the invasion of Iraq, calls and faxes were flooding Hillary Clinton's office about voting in favour of the war, running 3-to-1 for her voting no. She voted yes. This is very typical.

I meant that Clinton's constituents were against the war by a margin of 3-to-1. She was being urged to vote against giving Bush war powers and funding. Despite this, she voted yes - in favor of it.

This is very typical for several reasons. 1 - Politicians, especially those aspiring to higher office, do not want to look "soft" or anti-military. 2 - The corporations that profit from the war contribute heavily to their election campaigns (war chests!). And 3 - War means jobs, and the US has so little viable economy left. If a politician can bring home jobs, it means votes, no matter what.

redsock said...

But ultimately, the politicians are the only ones who have the power to actually order the troops or pull the plug.

Current polls show 80% of Americans are against what Bush is doing in Iraq and want some type of pull-out plan. His approval numbers are as low as they have ever been. Yet Chimpy McDrydrunk is rushing to actually increase the number of American men and women he shoves into the Woodchipper.

We hear a few Dems squawking about it right now. And although they have the power to tell Bush et al. that if they want an increase in troop levels, go grab a gun and hop on a transport plane tonight, I'll be shocked if they keep those opinions when push comes to surge.

redsock said...

Meanwhile, how much do the Fascists want to keep the US safe from terrorism? By their actions, just about 0%.

ABC:

Washington DC lobbying groups representing Walmart and other big retail chains, blanketed capital hill with letters this week in a futile last ditch attempt to stop passage of a House bill calling for 100% screening of air and sea cargo which they said would "impose costly mandates on American business." ...

The White House issued a detailed statement opposing the bill's requirement for 100% scanning of air and sea cargo, saying "such a requirement is neither executable nor feasible."


The White House believes an occasional terrorist attack -- and the resulting pile of dead Americans -- is clearly an acceptable tradeoff so its donors and friends maintain the proper level of profits.

redsock said...

Even as the White House says that plans for the US to attack Iran or Syria are "urban legends" -- why, the very idea! -- the US attacked yet another sovereign nation that posed not even a wee threat to it: Somalia.

I'm curious: How much play is this getting in the US media?

L-girl said...

Push comes to surge. Heh.

Yup, can't interfere with bidness. Gotta keep the donors happy.

Good comments, Redsock, thank you.

L-girl said...

Even as the White House says that plans for the US to attack Iran or Syria are "urban legends"

Remember when Iraq was an urban legend?

We have always been at war with...

impudent strumpet said...

Rosa Parks was part of the movement for 10 years before her famous action. She was chosen by Martin Luther King, Bob Moses and other organizers as the right woman for the job, because of unassailable character, the ability to withstand jail, and other factors.

Her famous refusal to move from her seat was planned down to the most minute detail - the day, the time, who the driver would be, who the arresting officer would be.


How on earth did they plan who the arresting officer would be??? Even with good intelligence, wouldn't police dispatching depend on several factors beyond anyone's control?

L-girl said...

Sorry, that is misleading. To clarify, they didn't plan who the officer would be - they knew the likelihood of who would answer the call, given the bus route, the day of the week, and the time of day, and the errand to be dispatched. It probably wasn't too much of a stretch.

My point was only that it was very much the planned, concerted action of a organization, a movement - not the whim of one woman.

This should take nothing away from Rosa Parks. She was a courageous and amazing woman. But she wasn't a "lone gunman" - she was a conspirator, in the best sense of the word.