9.30.2006

tmtc

Of known friends of wmtc...

They moved to Canada: (political defectors unless otherwise noted)
A&S (no blog) (arrived three days before us!)
Alex E of Canadian Yankee
Alex K of What does this win mean to the team (moved here for work, I believe)
CaliGirl in PEI, since August 2002
Diamond Jim of Worst Attitude (arrived June 2005)
Idealistic Pragmatist (the smartest of us all - here since 1997!)
Katrinka Bobinka of Katrinka Thinks (moved here when she married a Canadian)
Matt of This Nurse and partner YYZBoy of YYZ Life (arrived June 2005)
Mollie in Victoria (no longer blogging, and I miss her!)
Nick and Mason of Life Without Borders (arrived two days ago!)
Pearl of Notes To A Nameless Daughter
Tornwordo of Sticky Crows
Tresy in Victoria (no blog)
and of course
Yours truly and my esteemed partner (arrived August 30, 2005)

They're moving to Canada:
Daniel and Alan of Would Be Canadians
MSEH of Two Moms To Canada
John and Gito of Wondrous Canadian Renewal (approved!!)
Tom and Emilio of Canadian Hope
Riin of Riin's Rants (saving money - buy her yarn!)
West End Bound and drf of Moving To Vancouver
and
at least 50 other people who email me for information, but don't have blogs that I know of.

Canadians who returned from other countries, or are trying to:
Sassy Says
Andrea's Rambling Notes
Expat Traveler

Canadians in exile:
teflonjedi
htrouser, a Canadian who defected to the US and became an American, to stem the tide of lefties leaving the country (or so he claims!)

I'm sure I've overlooked somebody. If I have, my apologies, and please let me know!

32 comments:

West End Bound said...

L-girl,

Thanks for the recognition of "known friends" and we're glad to be a part of the movement. Good idea to have the whole "family" in one place - Guess that's why you really are the "Grande Dame" of future and current ExPats . . . . .

Idealistic Pragmatist said...

Wow. Either there are an awful lot of us, or a rather large proportion of us have blogs. *grin*

Idealistic Pragmatist said...

west end bound,

Not expats, immigrants. Expats eventually leave!

Idealistic Pragmatist said...

Oh, and one more from the political blogging world: Canadian Tar Heel from the Colby File. He came here to go to law school, I think.

And now I will stop spamming your inbox with comments. *sheepish look*

West End Bound said...

IP,

Guess I was looking at it from a current US resident's perspective. So from here, you lucky folks that are already in a Canadian PR status are correctly referred to as ExPats, right?

The emigrant/immigrant thing I think I finally have down: Upon gaining PR status in Canada we will be emigrants from the US and immigrants to Canada . . . .

Guess no one else is up this early on a Saturday morning, eh??

L-girl said...

"Grande Dame", you crack me up. :)

Either there are an awful lot of us, or a rather large proportion of us have blogs.

Both! :)

Thanks for the tip on Canadian Tar Heel. I'll check it out. I'm getting email from several recent college graduates who want to attend law school in Canada with an eye towards eventual PR status.

And now I will stop spamming your inbox with comments.

No, don't go! :)

So from here, you lucky folks that are already in a Canadian PR status are correctly referred to as ExPats, right?

I think so. I don't think the expression expatriate means we're one day moving back. It means we left our original country - and it implies we didn't "have to" in the way immigration is often understood - we chose to.

Upon gaining PR status in Canada we will be emigrants from the US and immigrants to Canada . . . .

Right. You're in the process of emigrating now. When you get here, you'll be an immigrant.

Lone Primate and I recently had a discussion about the word "immigrant". To me, it's a temporary status. As I continue to live my life in Canada, I don't think I'll always be an immigrant. He disagreed.

Guess no one else is up this early on a Saturday morning, eh??

It's always slow here on the weekends. It's nice to have you guys around!

West End Bound said...

My gut feeling is to agree with you on the "immigrant" status - After you have been there for a while (Canadian citizenship status, maybe?) I think you should refer to yourself as a Canadian. Otherwise, with the exception of First Nations, nearly all residents of Canada would be referred to as immigrants . . .

As for slow weekend blog traffic, the short period of time we have been on StatCounter - Thank You, L-girl! - I notice the same thing. Guess lots of folks aren't at work blogging when they're supposed to be doing boring "work stuff" rather than creative "blog stuff". :)

L-girl said...

I should make it clear that Lone Primate didn't mean it as derogatory or disparaging - not at all.

But I don't want to speak for him, hopefully he'll come around and do so himself.

Scott M. said...

A common term we have is "new Canadians", but the definition that is commonly used (even on the CBC) is to refer to anyone who chose to come to Canada as an "immigrant" throughout their life. The first "non-immigrant" of their family will be the first children who have Canadian Citizenship at birth and whose parents have Canadian residency (irrespective of the location of birth).

Lone Primate said...

Someone flashed the Primate Symbol! I must respond!

Ah, the old Immigrant Conundrum Case! Well, I do understand that for official purposes, a person ceases to be an "immigrant" upon becoming a "citizen" in Canada. And I agree with that for reasons I'll come back to. But in a practical and gut-level sense, the label "immigrant" endures, in my mind. Not in a legal or limiting sense, but simply to recognize that someone made an effort at some point to leave one country and move to another. That will simply always be true of a person who has done so. My mother's parents were from the UK (Northern Ireland and Scotland). They became Canadian citizens, eventually, but that doesn't change or affect the simple fact that they came here form somewhere else, unlike my mother, who was born here. They immigrated; hence, they were immigrants. So long as they lived in Canada (or any country other than the UK), that's just an enduring fact. To my mind, it's a word that would apply to them anywhere in the world they'd lived, other than the United Kingdom (or in my grandmother's case, arguably, the Republic of Ireland).

This is not to suggest, however, that any legal distinction is, or ought to be, made in Canada as to the nature of a person's Canadian citizenship. In Canada, no such legal distinction can be made, and I would personally never agree to such a distinction being established. There was a lot of dark grumbling recently about the "authenticity" of the Canadian citizenship of people in Lebanon calling on our government for help. And while a lot of people suggested something be done in light of that, I give our government credit for turning a deaf ear and doing what was right: serving those people without prejudice to where they may have been born, or where they've chosen to live. They were Canadians. Period.

It's not always the case, though. I can give you a very solid example of the enduring status of "immigrant", even in the legal sense, but I have to look to the United States to do it. Henry Kissinger was Secretary of State, but he can never be President. He wasn't born in the US. He's a citizen, but not from birth. In this small but very real legal way, he remains forever an immigrant, forever alien. I would not agree to such a distinction being put into law here. But when I say that someone is an "immigrant", even after 50 years (like my grandparents), I say it in lasting tribute to the effort it took for them to leave behind what they knew and come here, what they contributed in doing so, and the compliment they paid the country. To me, such a person is a citizen like me, but something more beyond as well. It's a plus, as far as I'm concerned, and a badge of honour that lasts for life.

L-girl said...

A common term we have is "new Canadians", but the definition that is commonly used (even on the CBC) is to refer to anyone who chose to come to Canada as an "immigrant" throughout their life.

I like that. New Canadian, very nice.

L-girl said...

Someone flashed the Primate Symbol! I must respond!

:-)

I give our government credit for turning a deaf ear and doing what was right: serving those people without prejudice to where they may have been born, or where they've chosen to live. They were Canadians. Period.

Here, here!!**

Thanks for your explanation, btw, it's nice. :)

It's a plus, as far as I'm concerned, and a badge of honour that lasts for life.

I'm glad you feel that way. :)

However, I'll trade in my temporary immigrant badge for the one that says new Canadian.



** When you say "here, here", are you saying "right here in this place" or "hear, hear", as in hearye, hearye, all must hear this? I must look that up on my favourite language site.

Idealistic Pragmatist said...

Hmm. The reason I say 'expat' sounds temporary is that people who hang out in places like soc.subculture.expatriate tend to be people who are temporarily living abroad, often for work and sometimes for adventure, usually in so-called "exotic" locations like Korea or Singapore, and existing largely in communities of other expats. An immigrant, on the other hand, necessarily needs to go through the bureaucracy of acquiring permanent residency in their new country, and therefore is more likely to have that commitment.

And as for losing my 'immigrant' status when I became a Canadian--I don't look at it that way. I mean, sure, the term generally used for me now is a 'new Canadian', which is fine, but the fact is that I *did* still go through the whole detailed and annoying process of immigration, and I'm proud of that! *grin*

I suppose I'm an immigrant Canadian. It's the closest thing I've ever felt to a national identity, really.

L-girl said...

The reason I say 'expat' sounds temporary is that people who hang out in places like soc.subculture.expatriate tend to be people who are temporarily living abroad, often for work and sometimes for adventure, usually in so-called "exotic" locations like Korea or Singapore, and existing largely in communities of other expats.

Oh, interesting. I didn't know that.

Friends of ours in the US refer to us as expats all the time. Maybe it's a loose expression that means whatever people want it to.

Here on Life Without Borders, I noticed Nick said "that's it, we were Canadian", referring to landing. Someone in comments quoted it.

Several wmtc readers have referred to me as Canadian. Yet... I don't think of myself as Canadian yet. I'd like to, but I don't, and I feel like I can't yet.

I still think of myself as a resident of Canada, an American living in Canada. When someone says "you're Canadian now", or something like that, I always say, not yet.

I'll post on this, see what other people think.

M@ said...

Anyone else see the documentary "Escape to Freedom"? It's about Canada's move towards legalization of marijuana and SSM, and one of its themes is refugees from the USA escaping to Canada. Fascinating stuff.

There appear to be a LOT of AWOL soldiers who run across the border, as well as "reefer refugees" who are being threatened with massive sentences (like 100 years) for possession of pot. In one case a California woman's lawyer advised her to run to Canada.

Astounding stuff. Not exactly a documentary that walks the middle of the road -- it's very left-leaning -- but there's some fascinating footage of hemp store busts in Vancouver, Montreal, and Hamilton.

There are also scenes of huge pro-marijuana marches, none of which I remember seeing in the news media (though I _do_ remember seeing the pro-"traditional"-marriage march that is also shown).

Anyhow, seemed topical. If you have the documentary channel you might want to catch it.

sister.susie said...

When someone says "you're Canadian now", or something like that, I always say, not yet.

I totally get this, L-girl. I never considered myself a Canadian until I earned my citizenship.

I married a Canadian and became a permanent resident when I moved to Winnipeg 23 yrs ago. I too was an American living in Canada until...

Bush went to war after 9/11 and I felt the need to distance myself from what was going on in my US homeland. I realized that I was a Canadian-at-heart, and had been for quite a while, but it was time to make it official. Which I did - proudly, and gratefully, and with a lump in my throat and a tear in my eye.

Funny thing is, I always just "was" an American, but I "feel" Canadian.

L-girl said...

Anyone else see the documentary "Escape to Freedom"?

I was invited to the opening of that movie. It was at Bloor St Cinema, talk by the director and all that... and couldn't go.

This is good to hear about, as it got some really awful reviews. You remind me to look for it on Zip.ca. Thanks!

L-girl said...

Bush went to war after 9/11 and I felt the need to distance myself from what was going on in my US homeland. I realized that I was a Canadian-at-heart, and had been for quite a while, but it was time to make it official. Which I did - proudly, and gratefully, and with a lump in my throat and a tear in my eye.

Funny thing is, I always just "was" an American, but I "feel" Canadian.


Very cool. :)

htrouser said...

Thanks for the plug! I'm totally digging my US citizenship. And, frankly, we do need more Canadians moving down here and taking citizenship, in order to replace y'all. Spread the word, please.

L-girl said...

Spread the word, please.

Tell people to move to the US? "Not bloody likely."

Idealistic Pragmatist said...

I don't think of myself as Canadian yet. I'd like to, but I don't, and I feel like I can't yet.

Well, that makes sense. The fact is, you're *not*, yet. Canadianness may be a state of mind, but it's also an official status. I certainly didn't feel like I had the right to call myself Canadian until I'd jumped through all the hoops. For a while, actually, I had as my tagline "American by birth, living in Canada by choice." I switched it once I filed the citizenship application, though (because at that point I *had* bureaucratically chosen to be Canadian, even though I didn't have the official status yet).

Of course, now, every time someone slips and says something about me not being Canadian, I get all bravado-ish and bark: "I'm as Canadian as YOU are!!!!" Hee.

L-girl said...

For a while, actually, I had as my tagline "American by birth, living in Canada by choice." I switched it once I filed the citizenship application, though (because at that point I *had* bureaucratically chosen to be Canadian, even though I didn't have the official status yet).

Plus our current tagline has a lot more flow. :)

My original tagline was "we are packing up our leftist politics and moving them to canda. this is a chronicle of our adventure".

Once we actually moved, that had to go.

Have you written about the personal side of your journey?

Idealistic Pragmatist said...

Have you written about the personal side of your journey?

Well, there's the who's Canadian enough, take three post, but that's as personal as I've ever gotten in my blog. I've written other things, too, though not in public. I'll spout my opinions all over the place, but I get strangely shy about airing personal things in a public space.

htrouser said...

Tell people to move to the US? "Not bloody likely."

Well, okay, asking you to spread a call for US immigration was probably a lost cause!

But I have been stunned and dismayed by the response I've had from many of my lefty US friends when I applied for US citizenship, namely "why would you want to go and do a thing like that?"

I ask them if they would like to willingly surrender their right to vote and the legal protections of their citizenship.

L-girl said...

Well sure, if you're going to live in a country, you might as well be able to vote there, and enjoy all the other benefits of citizenship.

It sounds like those friends are reacting from a place of wishful-thinking, as so many progressive Americans do - imagining they want to divorce themselves from the US. Many really do want that, but can't do it, and many just dream of it, but don't really want to go through with it.

Peregrinato said...

I'm a wanna-move-to-canada, but "WMTC"is taken already :)

Lone Primate said...

I still think of myself as a resident of Canada, an American living in Canada. When someone says "you're Canadian now", or something like that, I always say, not yet.

You know, somewhere, out there on the web a couple of years ago, I read something exactly about this. And it was written by an American who'd moved to Canada, years and years before. He felt the same way, stranger in a strange land, till he had what I think he called "the 'them' moment". It was the first time he read about something happening in the United States and saw it from the psychological outside. A genuine "I can't believe they're doing that", where "they" was not some subset of "we". He realized it almost immediately; it was the watershed moment. That was when he knew his identity had really switched. There's a line from I, Claudius: "It was like a birth in which the mother delivers herself." There's no guarantee it'll ever come, but if it does, you'll probably know it instantly. :)

L-girl said...

It was the first time he read about something happening in the United States and saw it from the psychological outside.

Heh. I know that can't happen to us, since we've always felt that way. Allan and I have both called the US "them" or "the US" our entire adult lives.

I don't know if I'll ever call Canada "we" - probably not, probably just "Canada" - but that first part, that's easy. :)

I know I've blogged about this before, but maybe I'll re-visit.

L-girl said...

I'm a wanna-move-to-canada, but "WMTC"is taken already :)

wwmtc?

or maybe

wmtc-wb? [wannabe]

gito said...

L! Thanks for the recognition! you are so cool! guess what! I am posting this message from the Great North!! I made it! and now we are together!!! hey don't forget to put us on your list for the next BBQ:-) XX G.

L-girl said...

I am posting this message from the Great North!! I made it! and now we are together!!!

!!!!!

Anonymous said...

Yeap - moved for work - staying for a nicer way of life. Permanent Resident application is on file in Buffalo and i'm just waiting (patiently) for the next steps. I'm getting married next summer too!

Keep on keepin' on!