Now, ABC claims to be editing those false sequences to satisfy critics so the show can go on -- even if it still remains a gross distortion of history. And as it does so, ABC advances the illusion that the deceptive nature of "The Path to 9/11" is an honest mistake committed by a hardworking but admittedly fumbling team of well-intentioned Hollywood professionals who wanted nothing less than to entertain America. But this is another Big Lie.Media Matters has a good summary of the issue, plus links and phone numbers through which you can voice your disapproval.
In fact, "The Path to 9/11" is produced and promoted by a well-honed propaganda operation consisting of a network of little-known right-wingers working from within Hollywood to counter its supposedly liberal bias. This is the network within the ABC network. Its godfather is far right activist David Horowitz, who has worked for more than a decade to establish a right-wing presence in Hollywood and to discredit mainstream film and TV production. On this project, he is working with a secretive evangelical religious right group founded by The Path to 9/11's director David Cunningham that proclaims its goal to "transform Hollywood" in line with its messianic vision.
We know that September 11th has been used to justify, well, nearly anything. War without end, torture, concentration camps, spying on civilians, imprisonment with charges or trial, unchecked governmental powers, censorship... it's a long list. People who control vast resources have a lot invested in perpetuating the lies and the propaganda. A lot depends on it.
But what is the truth?
We don't know.
Most of what passes for common knowledge about 9/11 is fiction. The official story -- or, as Allan often corrects me, the official stories, there have been so many -- is also fiction. Those people trying to uncover and expose the truth are routinely smeared as wackos, given the derisive label "conspiracy theorists," as if the very idea of conspiracy is in itself ridiculous. (Yet isn't even the Official Story one of conspiracy? Didn't someone conspire to perpetrate 9/11?)
The US Government went to a lot of trouble to try to prevent an investigation into the events of September 11th. Only the activism of 9/11 widows prevented them from getting away with it. Now, when I think of the time, money and effort that is spent trying to disgrace the 9/11 Truth Movement, I can only conclude that there are many things to hide.
It's easy to deride. It's harder to keep an open mind. Let's all work on keeping our minds open.
Today we have a guest post from my esteemed partner, Allan, a/k/a Redsock. Allan is part of the 9/11 Truth Movement. Here's what he has to say.
As the fifth anniversary of the September 11, 2001 attacks arrives, the 9/11 Truth Movement has made incredible strides. Numerous videos and scores of articles from dozens of researchers circulate on the internet. Without the web, what has been accomplished in the last five years might have taken more than two decades.
For the mainstream media, ignoring the Movement is no longer an option. Over the last six months, magazines and newspapers have been forced to say something about the many groups that are asking questions about what we've been told happened that day. The media's usual reaction? Ridicule -- often by highlighting a silly obscure theory and using that to smear the entire Movement.
Yet there are clear signs that many Americans have serious doubts about the official story. ... When I say "official story", I'm referring to the broad outline of what supposedly happened on 9/11. There is no "official story". Nearly every aspect of the actual attacks, the warnings and government response, the hijackers and their backgrounds can be seriously questioned, either because no evidence has been presented or because there are two, three, sometimes four different versions of what happened.
Some poll results:August 2006: 36% of respondents say it's "very likely" or "somewhat likely" that federal officials either participated in the 9/11 attacks or took no action to stop them.The 9/11 Commission has been exposed as a sham and there is next-to-nothing in its much-hyped Final Report that hasn't been discredited or had serious questions raised about its authenticity. (The Report has recently been released, appropriately, as a comic book.)
May 2006: A Zogby poll finds 42% of Americans believe there is a 9/11 coverup.
August 2004: This Zogby poll found that 49.3% of New York City residents believe some US leaders "knew in advance that attacks were planned on or around September 11, 2001, and that they consciously failed to act". And of those people, nearly 30% are registered Republicans and over 38% described themselves as "very conservative".
(On the flip side, according to an August 2006 Washington Post poll, 30% of Americans did not know in what year the 9/11 attacks took place. And 5% of respondents could not remember the month and date of the attacks.)
The Commission failed to address hundreds of serious questions, glossing over the many warnings from nearly a dozen foreign governments during the summer of 2001 -- the Bush administration insisted for nine months after 9/11 that there had been no warnings whatsoever -- and ignoring most of the 300+ questions submitted by the members of the 9/11 Family Steering Committee. Those questions and the Committee's rating of each "answer" can be found here.
In addition, Thomas Kean and Lee Hamilton, the chairmen of the Commission, admitted in recent weeks that officials from the Pentagon, NORAD and the FAA all lied to the Commission in their testimony. The Commission considered referring the matter to the Justice Department for criminal investigation, but in the end, they did nothing.
Kean and Hamilton also admitted that they consciously avoided asking tough questions of former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani: "It proved difficult, if not impossible, to raise hard questions about 9/11 in New York without it being perceived as criticism of the individual police and firefighters or [the Mayor]."
More importantly, when recounting the response of the US military to the hijacked planes, the Commission invented a brand-new chronology that contradicted every single news report since 9/12, as well as the Commission's earlier reports. There is no mention or explanation of the numerous discrepancies in the Final Report.
David Ray Griffin has written three books about 9/11, including "The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions". (Note: One chapter in his book "The New Pearl Harbor" draws heavily from an article I wrote in 2003.)
In his list of 115 omissions and distortions, Griffin finds that the Commission ignored:- the FBI's admission that it "has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11";The Commission also failed to tell us that two hijackers, Khalid Almihdhar and Nawaf Alhazmi -- two men the CIA knew had connections to the USS Cole bombing -- had a close relationship with Abdussattar Shaikh, an undercover informant who had worked closely with the FBI for years on terrorism cases. Alhazmi lived with Shaikh in San Diego for nearly a year -- and two other hijackers, Mohamed Atta and Hani Hanjour, may have also hung around Shaikh's house.
- the existence of WTC 7, the collapse of which FEMA admitted it could not explain;
- David Schippers's (the House Judiciary Committee's chief investigator in the Clinton impeachment trial) claim that several FBI agents knew the targets and date of the attacks as much as six weeks before 9/11, and his futile attempts to interest anyone in Washington of these warnings;
- reports in Newsweek that, on the night of September 10, several top Pentagon officials received a "particularly urgent warning" and quickly cancelled travel plans for the next morning;
- the 3.5 hours of testimony by former FBI translator Sibel Edmonds that revealed 9/11-related cover-ups by FBI officials; and
- the fact that as many as 12 war games were being staged on the morning of 9/11, including simultaneous hijackings of passenger planes and the crashing of a plane into a government building. For some of the military games, false "blips" meant to impersonate hijacked planes were placed onto FAA radar screens.
In his book "Intelligence Matters", Florida Senator Bob Graham, who co-chaired the Congressional Joint Inquiry into the attacks in late 2002, discloses how the FBI failed to tell the Inquiry about Shaikh, refused to allow him to testify, moved him to a secret location "for his own safety", and apparently set him up with "a well-known former Justice Department attorney [who had] a strong relationship with the FBI".
In the Commission's Final Report, Shaikh was referred to only once, as an anonymous "homeowner".
***
Griffin's "Omissions" deals extensively with the lies and half-truths given for the US military's response on 9/11. Paul Thompson, the editor of the Complete 9/11 Timeline (order the book version now!), has found seven different versions of the military's response:1. September 13, 2001: Richard Myers (the acting head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff on 9/11) admitted twice under oath before the Senate that no planes were scrambled until after the Pentagon was hit (nearly 90 minutes after it was known the first plane had been hijacked); a top NORAD official agreed.Thompson: "There's been nothing but lies and contradictions all along. It's like they keep trying different stories until they find one that sticks."
2. September 14: CBS News quoted unnamed sources that planes were scrambled, but arrived at each destination too late.
3. September 18: NORAD used some of the CBS information when it revised its own timeline.
4. May 2003: NORAD officials' testimony before the 9/11 Commission.
5. January 2004: Details from "Air War Over America", a book commissioned by the military.
6. July 2004: The 9/11 Commission's Final Report in July 2004, which rewrote the entire chronology, in a blatant attempt to shift blame from the military to the FAA.
7. September 2006: Details from the NORAD audio tapes featured in Vanity Fair.
911truth.org offers the Top 40 reasons to doubt the official story, but what should be the main focus? What someone believes should be the #1 item with which to educate the general public might be #7 or #28 to me.
There's so much verifiable evidence that members of the Bush administration were complicit in the attacks that I can't help but think those "researchers" who waste time arguing about outlandish theories are actually disinformation agents, intent on making everyone in the Truth Movement look like tinfoil-hat wearing kooks.
I'm much more receptive to people gathering information from government officials, media sources and books, and asking questions about what they have found, than someone linking to a grainy video and telling me "what really happened". Many of the videos are visually compelling -- I have a ton of them stored away on various discs -- but in my own research, I tend to focus on the written word.
In addition to the books by Thompson and Griffin, I would also recommend Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed's The War On Truth: 9/11, Disinformation And The Anatomy Of Terrorism. ... On the web, 911 Blogger is a great place for links to all kinds of 9/11 research. And check out Jeff Wells's Coincidence Theorist's Guide to 9/11.
One video released this week, 9/11: Press For Truth, is based on Thompson's research and was produced for the general viewer. I highly recommend it. Two 10-minute excerpts can be found here and here and Google Video has the whole thing here. (But if you watch it and like it, please buy a copy.)
In 2002, Bob Graham said (my emphasis):was surprised at the evidence that there were foreign governments involved in facilitating the activities of at least some of the terrorists in the United States. ... Most of that information is classified, I think overly-classified... It will become public at some point when it's turned over to the National Archives, but that's 20 or 30 years from now.The 9/11 Truth Movement is well ahead of schedule.
40 comments:
A government commission that cherry-picks evidence, revises facts, timelines, and events, and alters witness testimony to meet the needs of a pre-ordained conclusion? Unthinkable! Earl Warren must be rolling over in Lee Harvey Oswald's grave.
I have to admit, this is largely news to me. I knew a lot of BS was floated out on big rafts after the fact, mostly to justify war in Iraq, but I had gathered that the basic facts about who acted on 9/11 and who was responsible behind the scenes (not including Saddam, of course) was pretty well established, what with Osama's "wow, that went better than we expected" video. It's unsettling this late in the game to see even that is open to question.
Earl Warren must be rolling over in Lee Harvey Oswald's grave.
No. Gibby Haynes told us: "The Shah Sleeps in Lee Harvey Oswald's Grave".
...
One snippet that I cut:
From Colin Powell's interview with ABC News, September 23, 2001:
Powell: We will put before the world, the American people, a persuasive case that there will be no doubt when that case is presented that it is al Qaeda, led by Osama bin Laden, who has been responsible for this terrible, tragic incident.
ABC: So you're talking about something beyond simple assertions by US leaders. You're talking about assertions backed up by the evidence.
Powell: Yes.
...
1,815 days later ... still nothing.
If the 9/11 "Truth Movement" wants to gain any credibility whatsoever, it has to distance itself from theories that don't hold any water whatsoever, such as the theory that the twin towers were actually brought down by explosives pre-planted in the buildings, or that the pentagon was actually hit by a cruise missile. The thing with "conspiracy theories" is that all evidence isn't held to have equal value, and so no matter how many people witnessed a plane fly into the pentagon, no matter how many remains were actually recovered, or black boxes from the flight deck, these bits of evidence are always dismissed as part of the "disinformation campaign". It's literally impossible to have a reasoned debate with many of the "9/11 Truth" people. That being said, having read the 9/11 report (which was deficient in some areas, but conspiracy theorists are using this to discredit EVERY conclusion made therein, which I think is ludicrous - they would have claimed that planes didn't fly into the WTC if it wasn't caught on national television), I believe that there is at least a possibility that Flight 93 was actually shot down by the US military. There was enough conflicting evidence presented to raise at least doubts of the official story on that count. The difference there is that there would be few enough players in that decision that a cover up would be possible, and even desirable in some respects for the military and government. (Isn't a story of heroic passengers better for the families than knowing that the plane was necessarily shot down?) That being said, I do not know one way or the other what happened since I wasn't there, but both possibilities remain reasonable. (Many of the things suggested by 9/11 Truth websites are not even close to being reasonable explanations of events, which could be accepted by rational examinations of the evidence.) At any rate, everyone who dislikes the Bush administration as much as I do would be tempted to believe that they had something to do with something as atrocious as 9/11, but that doesn't make it so. Also, there is a tendency among humans to want to attribute significant events with significant causes. No one wants to believe that a small group of people could accomplish something as significant as 9/11, because it makes the world seem too random and unpredictable. Well, maybe it is random and unpredictable sometimes. A critical evaluation of movies such as "Loose Change" will reveal the movies for what they are: hogwash. Any points with validity in those movies are completely eclipsed by the load of BS that most of the arguments turn out to be. (If you want to make a point about demolition, for example, you really weaken your case if you use a Theology professor's rhetoric as your expert testimony.)
At any rate, everyone who dislikes the Bush administration as much as I do would be tempted to believe that they had something to do with something as atrocious as 9/11, but that doesn't make it so.
Of course not! No one here is suggesting such. Facts and evidence only. Remember, we're not saying we know who is responsible for 9/11. We are saying the official story is a pack of lies and we want the truth. Huge difference.
Also, there is a tendency among humans to want to attribute significant events with significant causes. No one wants to believe that a small group of people could accomplish something as significant as 9/11, because it makes the world seem too random and unpredictable. Well, maybe it is random and unpredictable sometimes.
If you read the essay linked in my previous post - "My September 10th" - you will see I am all too familiar with the random, unpredictability of the universe.
While what you're saying may be true for some people, it really has no bearing on this.
All we want is for all the facts to be made public. Supposedly we owe the victims of 9/11 a useless war! At the very least, don't we owe them the full knowledge of who was responsible?
By the way, there is also a tendency among humans to dismiss an entire theory or body of evidence because one facet of it does not hold up to scrutiny - or because someone "weird" believes it. That's partially what you're doing here.
As Allan said, there are some wacky theories out there. There's no doubt about that. But to take what you've said above - all of which may be true - and then conclude that we actually know what happened, who perpetrated 9/11 and why, who paid for it, why the US was unprepared for the attack (etc.), is incredibly reductive.
Thanks to Allan, aka, Redsock for this information . . . . This will provide LOTS of reading material for me to review while the politicians and clergy are getting their camera "face time" today . . . .
I doubt we'll ever know the truth behind 9/11, anymore than we'll find out who really won the 2000 presidential election.
The sooner we, in North America, disconnect the words 'public servant' from 'politicians' and replace them with 'in power', the sooner we'll judge their actions in the proper context.
Does anybody in the Bush administration seriously think that somebody is out to 'destroy' America (who would buy the oil?) or actually take it over? The only people who want to 'run' the US are the guys you actually see (with a dollop of backers you can't see). Unfortuately, what you see are people who'll do virtually anything to hang on to power, and it's time we all believed our eyes.
Unfortuately, what you see are people who'll do virtually anything to hang on to power, and it's time we all believed our eyes.
Thanks Woti. So true.
I had to learn how not to say (and think), "They wouldn't do that!"
There's nothing people in power won't do to increase and hold on to their power and profits. There are a million examples in history, and right before our own eyes.
Sometimes it's hard to keep your eyes opened and focused, but it's something to aspire to.
commenting on k-clare's mega-paragraph:
If the 9/11 "Truth Movement" wants to gain any credibility whatsoever, it has to distance itself from theories that don't hold any water whatsoever
This is impossible. The Truth Movement is not one singular group. It is a huge collection of people with various ideas and beliefs.
Just like all Christians are not exactly alike or all Italians are not exactly alike, there is no one 9/11 group to weed people out of.
I'm not a member of any group per se, but I count myself among the Movement.
It's literally impossible to have a reasoned debate with many of the "9/11 Truth" people.
I could not agree more. And sadly, as in any group, the loudest and most obnoxious people get the most attention.
they would have claimed that planes didn't fly into the WTC if it wasn't caught on national television
Some do. I was going to mention some of the sillier "theories" but decided against it. They are out there if you look.
Many of the things suggested by 9/11 Truth websites are not even close to being reasonable explanations of events
But many are. Regardless, I shy away from "explanations". What I like is to gather hundreds of reports and compare them. What is the consensus? Where and what are the discrepancies? Has the story changed over time, and how?
Pointing out that there are 7 different accounts of the military responses (and 7 different versions of who told Bush about the first crash) will get people to demand a real and impartial investigation.
No one wants to believe that a small group of people could accomplish something as significant as 9/11
The "official story" says 19 guys did it. That's pretty small.
At various times, the govt. has said they had absolutely no help.
Other times, they say there were dozens of helpers in the US. John Ashcroft said on 9/13 or so that they had at least 10 men in custody and knew the names of 40 more and were looking for them. There has not been any mention of that story in the mainstream since. What happened?
A critical evaluation of movies such as "Loose Change" will reveal the movies for what they are: hogwash.
I would LOVE a critical look at "Loose Change" (its 3 versions) or "Everybody's Got to Learn Sometime" or any of the others. They all make good points, but they also distort many points. Whether those errors are deliberate is a matter of debate.
That's why I steer people to "The Terror Timeline". It is nothing but mainstream news account, along with government statements and reports. And the online version has links to the actual articles that are quoted. No slant, no spin, no tinfoil, simply a record of what was reported. And "Press for Truth" is based on that body of work.
woti:
I doubt we'll ever know the truth behind 9/11, anymore than we'll find out who really won the 2000 presidential election.
I'm actually hopeful about 9/11 -- and very curious what the reaction will be. Will enough time have gone by that people will merely shrug their shoulders? That's my fear.
The winner of the 2000 election is not in doubt. Not at all. ... Just before 9/11, there was a huge story set to break that showed Gore was the winner in every single vote-counting scenario in Florida.
The New York Times explained why it waited months to publish the results of the investigation (which they did under a very misleading headline) by saying the country didn't need news like that in the months after the attacks.
The winner of the 2000 election is not in doubt. Not at all.
I meant to say that. Thanks. :)
I think I was very fair in admitting that it was possible flight 93 was shot down, and so I don't think I can be accused justly of dismissing an entire body of evidence, I have looked at most of it pretty carefully before dismissing it. I think the "truth" people have some genuine points on the Flight 93 stuff. I also believe that they have some genuine points on "they ignored the warnings". Okay, so maybe the government is incompetent. This is vastly different from saying that they are behind the whole thing, or that the events of that day are completely different from the accepted story.
"We are saying the official story is a pack of lies and we want the truth. Huge difference."
This statement is not particularly helpful, unless you state which parts of the "official story" are a pack of lies. Okay let's start with the premise that planes crashed on that day, is that a lie? Some in the 9/11 truth movement would say yes. The twin towers collapsed. Not too many arguments about that one. There was a big fiery hole in the pentagon. Not too many arguments there either. I'm not trying to insult your intelligence here, I'm just saying, if you say "it's a pack of lies" it leaves open to interpretation what you are referring to.
Pretending for a minute that it is the onus of the government to "prove" what happened that day, they have done a not ideal but at least somewhat thorough job in the 9/11 report -- at least concerning the way events unfolded that morning -- (this does not include the pre-intelligence, the gov't response, preparedness, etc. the ultimate goals behind the attacks, etc.) Have you read it?
Okay, so I guess the only way I can go on discussing this is if we establish what we are debating here. The US government is incompetent. Yup, no debate there. Here's where it gets really tricky.
On the morning of 9/11, 19 men of middle eastern descent who had taken flying lessons in the US boarded 4 different planes, 2 of which were crashed into the WTC, the resulting fires of which caused both towers to fall. Another crashed into the pentagon. Another crashed into a Pennsylvania field.
Now if we're debating any of that, there is lots of evidence out there that can reasonably "prove" these statements.
The rest of the story can be filled in by a certain sense of what is reasonable and what is not, without being able to "prove" it. What was the motivation behind the attacks? Who would want to attack the US? Well, Osama bin Laden has tried in the past to attack the US, and did claim victory. He said beforehand that he intended to attack the US. It is pretty clear that sometimes religion can radicalize a person. It looks as if these people were radicalized, since they gave their own lives. Unless there is clear evidence to the contrary, which I have not seen but would be interested in seeing, I believe this explanation to be a reasonable one. I do not take any stock in arguments which say "oh it would be impossible for them to have accomplished it" and then do not propose any kind of alternative. YES it is the onus of the people poking holes to present some kind of reasonable alternative theory, since clearly SOMETHING brought down the WTC on that day. I wish to high heaven it hadn't happened but it appears to have.
K-clare, thank you for your comments.
I'm sure I find your statement as "not particularly helpful" as you find mine.
I hope you will not mistake this blog for a forum for 9/11 truth discussion. Allan's post contains plenty of links where you can read more if you like, and I'm sure there are hundreds of places on the net to have the discussion you want.
Thanks for respecting that. Have a good day.
This is an interesting read:
http://www.thewhig.com/webapp/sitepages/content.asp?contentid=187352&catname=Opinion%20Columns&classif=
Dyer is a work-in-progess. A professional 'warrior' who strives for perspective in his old age.
I used to quote Dyer all the time on W-Cheney things. And I didn't even know he was Canadian! I thought he was British. There are tons of links to him in the early months of this blog.
Thanks for that, Woti, I'll take a look.
Have you read it?
Yes, though I did only skim the "What To Do" section at the end. In fact, I own 2 copies (the second one published by Barnes & Noble Books with the Index that the Commission must have forgotten to include in its copy.)
The US government is incompetent.
The current holders of office? I disagree. They are very effective in doing what they want.
On the morning of 9/11, 19 men of middle eastern descent ... boarded 4 different planes
While I would agree that something like this probably happened, no evidence has been presented to back it up. None.
If you know of any (actually proof, not something that, as you later typed, can "prove" it), please email it to me privately. I'm quite curious.
Well I apologize for offending, I am a genuine fan of your site. I did not mean for anything to be taken in anything less than a respectful way, so I apologize if it came across that way. I am a sucker for a good debate, so I can get too enthusiastic sometimes.
I suppose I thought this would be an interesting discussion to have because I think so highly of you, and I am interested in the more convincing arguments of the "9/11 Truth" movement, although I'm not sure who to talk to about those things (apparently redsock). That being said, I will say no more words on the subject. Congratulations on your first year in Canada.
The US government is incompetent.
The current holders of office? I disagree. They are very effective in doing what they want.
When it comes to defense and security, the US has been very incompetent at various times. The profit motive often gets in the way of what they should be doing.
But these guys in office now, sheesh, could anything be more perfectly efficient? They've stolen at least two elections, kept a huge populace in fear and ignorance, controlled increasing amounts of media, destabilized a region and wrested control of its important resources, and turned a HUGE profit in doing so. And that's just the broadest outline.
K-Clare, thank you again. You said nothing offensive, in any way - and I apologize if I gave you the impression you had offended me. Not at all.
My comment was, to use a terrible expression, a pre-emptive strike. I've seen these debates too many times, and they almost always get ugly when someone is unconvinced of the need for further research - and I don't want to take place here. It's just not wmtc material.
Please continue to read and enjoy wmtc. :) And thank you for your good wishes on our one-year mark!
I wasn't offended and I hope I didn't offend.
I agreed with a lot of what you said. There is an astounding lack of critical thinking among some 9/11 people (like any group of humans, I suppose). It's very frustrating.
L doesn't want this to turn into a debate, but I don't see why the discussion could not continue in some form.
Thompson's Timeline is the best place to start. If your jaw doesn't hit the floor at least twice per page, I'll be surprised.
L doesn't want this to turn into a debate, but I don't see why the discussion could not continue in some form.
Absolutely. A, I'm sure you can suggest several places for continued discussion.
the thing i've never been able to hear a good argument about from 9/11 truth ppl or conspiracy theorists or whatever is how there hasn't been one single solitary whistle-blower in the united states government or anywhere, really...how there isn't even one person who knows the truth and can't live with themselves...one person who'd spill the beans, leak to the press, even make loud public on the record statements with attribution and hard evidence about what really happened...
there are multiple accounts of an unprecedented, widespread national disaster that happened in multiple locations simultaneously? when i totaled my car several years ago there were "multiple accounts" of what happened, too. doesn't mean the accident didn't happen...or that it wasn't an accident.
There have been many whistleblowers. Also, no one is saying everyone in the government knew about it! That would be absurd. I'll let Allan expound, as he knows a lot more about it than I do. (And a lot more about it, I'd bet, than anyone else here.)
there are multiple accounts of an unprecedented, widespread national disaster that happened in multiple locations simultaneously? when i totaled my car several years ago there were "multiple accounts" of what happened, too. doesn't mean the accident didn't happen...or that it wasn't an accident.
This is not an argument, you know. It's a statement of fact. It's true, but answers nothing. It doesn't address any of the hundreds of unanswered questions or discrepancies in the government's own version(s) of events.
The fact that there are multiple accounts - that alone should cause us to seek truth, not cover it up, as the government has worked so hard to do.
Redsock--thanks for your clarifying the 2000 election thing--I've seen a brief reference to the Times 'spike' before. I guess that's exactly my point. Until the 'truth' is packaged so that it can be digested by Rush Limbaugh's audience, the deliberate obfuscation will rage on. I, too, hope that the 9/11 mythology is properly sorted out and reaches the clear light of day.
beth,
there have been many people who have come forward:
sibel edmonds
indira singh
robert wright
coleen rowley
david schippers
michael springman
mary schneider
richard andrew grove
these are some of the bigger names. however, they have been unable to get anyone in the mainstream to listen to them.
when i totaled my car several years ago there were "multiple accounts" of what happened, too. doesn't mean the accident didn't happen...or that it wasn't an accident.
if we think of 9/11 as a car accident, let's say the police (over a few months) reported:
it happened on tuesday
it happened on friday
it was 8 AM
it was 10 PM
you were driving alone
you had three people in your car
you drove a small blue car
you drove a large white truck
you were going south
you were going north
you were standing still
there was one other car involved
there were six other cars involved
you admitted it was your fault
you said it was the other guy's fault
you couldn't say anything because you claimed you are a mute
you might wonder what the hell is going on.
it is no exaggeration to say that what the government has been telling us over the last five years re: 9/11 is like what i typed above.
one week ago, porter goss, head of the cia, said "we have an excellent idea where bin laden is".
only three days later, the military said bin laden's trail has gone "stone cold".
wtf?
sources for bin laden claims (because i don't like people who just make shit up):
sept 7: goss says "we have an excellent idea of his location"
sept 9: stone cold - no solid lead in 2+ years
Allan, I love what you said re the car accident analogy. I must remember it for future use.
Hi all, I just found this on Common Dreams: Gaping Holes In The 9/11 Narrative by Robert Scheer.
And I ALSO think redsock should start again to post political opinion on this blog...
Oh wait... Which URL am I at again?
:-)
Oh wait... Which URL am I at again?
LOL, yes it was that kind of day, Joy Nation meets wmtc. Joy Moves to Canada?
Thanks for stopping by.
Democracy Now! hosted an interesting debate on September 11 that included the producers of "Loose Change."
As someone who has not seen the film, but has read the 9/11 Commission Report and was unsatisfied with it, I have to say I was less than impressed with the film's producers and their veracity. They just did not come off as credible to me. And I approached it with very much an open mind.
I've heard the film has a lot of problems, too. There are three versions out now, I think? Too bad it's being used as the poster-boy for 9/11 research.
Hey MSS, I was just over at F&V! What are the odds? :)
mss,
was that their debate with the editors from popular mechanics? i heard they came off as kinda snotty. ... but popular mechanics also went out of its way -- in the article that was expanded into the book -- to pick the wackiest theories to poke fun at those who ask questions. i haven't read the book, but i assume it's more of the same.
loose change has definite problems -- like i said either here or at my blog, you have to read a LOT of other stuff to see where they are bullshitting the audience.
it drives me crazy. if they are not accuarte and above-board, they are wide open to bush-loving critics.
there are mountains of verifiable information that can be used against the bush gang. there is 0% need to twist the facts and make shit up.
also i read that one of popular mechanics' senior researchers for the 9/11 article last year was benjamin chertoff, the cousin of homeland security director michael chertoff.
benjamin may not necessarily agree with his uncle on political matters, but, boy, it sure is a small world!
(also overheard that PM underwent a huge editorial shift a few years ago and became much more conservative. can't say for sure.)
is anyone still coming here to read?
i wanted to share a quote i was altered to. korey rowe, one of the makers of "loose change", admits they left lies in the movie on purpose.
"What I encourage people to do is go out and research it themselves. We don't ever come out and say that everything we say is 100 percent. We know there are errors in the documentary, and we've actually left them in there so that people discredit us and do the research for themselves -- the B52 (remarked to have flown into the Empire State Building), the use of Wikipedia, things like that. We left them in there so people will want to discredit us and go out and research the events yourself and come up with your own conclusions. That's our whole goal, to make Americans think."
korey, i think you are insane.
loose change lie link:
here
I don't know if anyone's still reading this, but you're welcome to post a comment on a more recent thread and refer readers to it.
and if that statement is true - i.e., if they left errors in the film on purpose - than i agree, he is insane.
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